We should get Richard Hamilton from the...

Ha ha ha ha ha! Not much better than Rudy! Wooooweee that was a good one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hamilton_(basketball)

 

Richard Hamilton PER, 2008-09: 15.2 (16.9 career)
Rudy Fernandez PER, 2008-09: 16.3

And in terms of scoring efficiency:

Richard Hamilton: .532 TS% (.529 career)
Rudy Fernandez: .590 TS%

As far as non-numeric appraisal, Hamilton's defense might be slightly better but not that much better. He may have been part of a great defensive team, but he's not a great defender. Fernandez definitely appears to be a much, much better passer.

I don't see much evidence that Hamilton is a significantly better player.

 

I'd say it's a different kind of scoring that may or may not open the paint for LA and ODEN.

 

Richard Hamilton All Star appearances: 3.
NCAA championships: 1
NBA Championships: 1
NBA Finals appearances: 2
Detroit Pistons all time leading scorer in the playoffs ahead of Isiah Thomas.

What has Rudy won? Oh that's right. Nothing. There is more to a player than PERS. It's called winning games.

 

I also think Rip could feed Oden and make him a better player.

 

So you judge players on the quality of their teammates? If Richard Hamilton had played for Arizona State and then the Bobcats, you'd think he was a worse player?

Then we have a pretty fundamental difference in terms of how we evaluate players. I don't evaluate players based on what their team won (which is dependent on quality of teammates), I evaluate players based on what they do to help their team win. I don't think Hamilton is a better scorer or rebounder than Fernandez. He's possibly a slightly better defender and a worse passer. Thus, I don't think he does more to help a team win. U Conn and the Pistons would have been just as well off with Fernandez in his place.

The numbers of their performances simply back up my observations. They're not the reason to play the games.

 

Isn't Utah already the team to beat when they're actually healthy? Deron/Memo/Boozer have not played a single game together yet this year.....but I agree Rip would make them pretty studly, he's the perfect SG for their system.

 

That's a stretch Minstrel! Come on Hamilton was a huge part of Detroits championship. He scored and was clutch in the finals. To say Rudy is on the same level as Hamilton I don't think is accurate. Rudy may be as good one day but he'll have to be a leader too and Hamilton is one for sure.

 

He was a solid part of a championship team, I agree. The fact that he was part of a championship team doesn't make him a better player. He's still the sum of his abilities. If you put stock in clutch and leadership, and consider Rudy deficient in those things, I guess that'll effect your appraisal. I think those concepts are pretty overrated in evaluations.

 

Ok so exactly where in clutch and leadership has Rudy exceed Hamilton? Are you completely high out of your gord? That is the definition of Hamiltons career. Rudy has not even been clutch in the playoffs once yet, let alone the NBA finals. Secondly, what leadership is Rudy providing here? I haven't seen jack shit from leadership from him.

 

I think you're confused. I don't use clutch and leadership in my evaluations, because I think those are both completely arbitrary in-the-eye-of-the-beholder concepts. I said that if the person I was responding to (YardApe) gave Rip edges in "leadership" and "clutch" that would cause his evaluation to differ from mine.

I don't think either Rip or Rudy get better or worse at the ends of games and I haven't seen either one exhibit leadership. Considering we don't see into the clubhouse or practices, we have virtually no idea what value, if any, they bring in terms of interaction with other players.

 

Minstrel knows this is a debate he wont win, nor does he even believe it! He's playing Devils advocate, gotta be!

Leadership and clutch is massively important for a championship team. Rudy is not a leader "YET", Hamilton is! Not opinion... FACT! Reporters from around the league have all comented on Hamiltons leadership for years.

IF and I say IF leadership and clutch is less important in evaluating a player than ROY would not be a Blazer.

 

If Hamilton were a good leader, wouldn't he take a win at all cost mentality, and not be upset about sharing minutes with AI, but rather, realize between him, AI, and Stuckey, with AI and Stuckey's ability to play PG, they can each get around 32 minutes per game and be mroe than accepting of moving to the bench for the good of the team?

Also, as far as Rudy goes, the what has he won, I would say being a World Champion would qualify as something he won. And having a big game in the Olympic finals and carrying his team against 12 of the best players in the world is also impressive. No, it's not the NBA. But to act like he is just the same as any other rookie is selling him short.

 

Well except for the fact that I have seen nothing yet about Rip Hamilton complaining about starting, and the fact that when AI came over Rip did come off the bench, there are no problems with your theory. The only reason the lineups are the way they are now, is because Curry is changing them up in order to try and find a winning combination. Every player in that back court has taken turns coming off the bench trying to find a combination that works. Every player has sacrificed to try and make it work. Any player worth a damn is going to be competitive in spirit enough to want to start. So yea, besides all those things, your theory is great...

 

I don't know if I'll "win" it...I don't much care about whether I win, but I definitely believe it. The fact that reporters claim it means very little. Reporters also claimed Rasheed Wallace was a loser...until he won a championship in Detroit and then he was a leader and a winner. Reporters create narratives because their readers enjoy narratives; they aren't very good at player evaluations as far as I'm concerned.

 

or as I like to call it, stirring the pot.