Well, what Center do you want?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Prue, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. Fez Hammersticks

    Fez Hammersticks スーパーバッド Zero Cool

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    Kosta Koufos is actually the type of backup that would be perfect for this team.

    One year left on his deal.
     
  2. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    See, that I agree with quite a bit. Wanting to bring in Hawes for a 4-year contract right now just doesn't make sense to me. Sure, he's put up some numbers this year, but I'm leery of guys in a contract year playing for a bad team.
     
  3. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

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    That's a good idea.
     
  4. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    You know what's interesting?

    Robin Lopez was the #15 pick in the draft. He has started more than half his games in the NBA. His 1st 4 seasons went like this.

    3.2ppg, 2.0rpg
    8.4ppg, 4.0rpg
    6.4ppg, 3.2rpg
    5.4ppg, 3.3rpg

    Then he jumped a bit, so did his PT. His production per 36 has been pretty steady.
    11.3ppg, 5.6rpg
    10.9ppg, 8.5rpg

    Meyers Leonard came into the league at the same age of 20. His 1st 2 seasons have looked like this, per 36 (Robins per 26 for the same age.)
    11.3pts, 7.6reb (11.1pts, 6.9reb)
    9.7pts, 11.7reb (15.7pts, 9.1reb)

    Meyers and Alex Len play about the same number of minutes for their teams. Len is averaging 2.2pts and 2.4 reb, and was the 5th overall pick. Should Phoenix wash their hands of him?

    What does all this mean? Not a ton, but you can look around the league and as a whole Centers don't really start to be very effective until their 4th season. Both players struggled with fouls their 1st 2 seasons.
     
  5. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    Another similar example 20yo Rookie Center #12 pick Steven Adams per 36, 7.9pts and 10.6 reb, and he has started 20 games.
     
  6. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    What if you add blocked shots or DRTG to that comparison? That's my biggest problem with him. He defense like a guard and he doesn't realize how tall he is or something.

    I don't really care about his scoring ability. And even the reb stat is a bit deceiving. Robin's numbers are low, but the team rebounds better with him on the floor because he boxes out guys. Can we say the same about Leonard?
     
  7. Hobbesarable

    Hobbesarable Cartoon Character

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    That shows hope if you never watched Meyers Leonard play in the NBA.
     
  8. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    For this team only, Leonard is 3rd in Drtg at 105.

    LMA and Robinson are at 104.

    Next best is a big group, including Lopez and Freeland. at 107.
     
  9. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    I always get this confused but I thought the lower number is better
     
  10. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    I was looking at Meyers' stats yesterday. What struck me (going off my failing memory) is that he's playing half the minutes per game as last year, and in fewer games. In those games, his shooting percentages are a bit lower, which I'd attribute to inconsistent minutes and small sample size. But on a per minute basis, virtually all his other stats are improved -- with the exception of blocked shots. It's clear that the coaching staff has told him to flat out don't go for blocks, and to keep his verticality ala Freeland and Lopez. I think they are deconstrucing his game so they can build it back under their guidance. Hence, he's looking pretty tentative most of the time.

    He's a project. Let the coaches do their job. We'll see if he was worth the minimal investment in 2 or 3 years. I figure it's not worth bunching my panties over, and in fact, it might work out pretty well. For example: we resign him on a cheap contract because he's 'not there' yet, then he finally develops. Like Lopez.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
    HailBlazers likes this.
  11. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    I have come to grip that Leonard just won't be anything but a limited role player. He doesn't have the stuff between the ears to make him great.

    He is the center version of Luke Babbitt, giving us hope sometimes, but mainly having us pull our hair out most the time.
     
  12. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    Repped, he has improved. Albeit not as much, or as fast as most would like. And while he does continue to look like a fish outta water, if you look past his glaring deficiencies you can see progress in his game.

    The center position in the NBA is extremely difficult to learn. The refs don't respect you and the opponents are targeting you. It's really a double edged sword.
     
  13. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    Even Noah went like this his 1st 2 seasons (per36)
    11.5pts, 9.8reb
    10.0pts, 11.3reb

    And he was 22 and 23 instead of 20 and 21.
     
  14. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    The bulk of Centers struggle with Fouls, footwork and reaction time in their 1st couple of years. If you look it takes most centers especially bigger ones, about 3-4 years, sometimes 5 before they "Break out".
     
  15. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    Leonard definitely makes a case for guys staying in college for 4years. Robin Lopez wasn't lighting it up his first two seasons. I think he'll surprise people when they finally accept the fact that he's not a center, he's a really tall PF
     
  16. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    That's good. Leonard isn't good
     
  17. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    Most teams fans with young centers have this exact same discussion when that guy is 20 or 21.
     
  18. The_Lillard_King

    The_Lillard_King Westside

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    I see stats being used to show that just because they have a slow start in the NBA doesn't mean they will always be like that, and I agree. But for every successful player who started slow in the NBA there are probably 3 other players that started slow and never made it. I'm sure I could find many names that had stats comparable to Leonard that never really made it in the league after a few years.

    For instance, Jermaine is often used here as a caution to trading a big man away. But Jermaine showed much more promise than Leonard and wasn't exactly traded away for peanuts (which is what Leonard would command right now). I don't know what Lopez looked like at Phx, but guessing he showed more promise than Leonard.

    I don't think you can rely on other players stats to show what Leonard will or won't be in the future. But I think us Blazers fans have better gauge than that, we all have probably watched 90% of the minutes Leonard has played in the NBA.

    Personally, I see a player with and NBA body and talent to make it in this league but I don't see a budding star who is just waiting to break out. He is an easy player to have on the roster right now with his rookie salary and team attitude. Whether he will be deserving of that elusive 2nd multi-year contract we will see. But I would say at the rate I see development, the odds are against him. I think his best case is hoping he can continue to get 1 year contract in hopes he eventually turns into stable NBA player who can command a mulit-year contract.
     
  19. Prue

    Prue Member

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    Meyers might could 'get it' in 2-3 more years. He doesn't have that instinct that seems to ooze out of guards in this league...players who can 'feel' where people are on the floor, where to be to improve spacing and to be in the right place at the right time. Skill then develops to compensate for this. For Meyers...there are some things he needs to learn in short order:

    1) Arms straight up. They have made this a 'centers game' in the paint so long as we show the arms. He needs to quit swiping at the ball down low and be confident in his ability to either be in the way and affect the short or simply block it at the rim. LA probably does the BEST at the 'swipe' move for a big guy but he gets called for the hack every now and then...its risky without quick hands and timing.

    2) Block out. Shot goes up, the FIRST reaction of Meyers (and others on the team too...Robin stands almost alone in doing this well consistently) is to watch where the ball is going and not looking/feeling where his man is. You can do BOTH, look and box out but it takes footwork and arm spacing to feel where you man is...If he can get this down he'll get rebounds...or at least make it easier for T-rob to snatch em :p

    3) Roll with expectation. No one is switching on the P&R to stay with Meyers, they are crowding whoever is driving. Meyers doesn't expect the pass and even if it doesnt come he should be EXPECTING it to be there and go straight up to the rim with it hard. I'm not 100% sure what he is doing now, its like he's trying to roll to a 'mark' on the floor THEN turn to face for the pass...once he rolls out of the screen he needs to be eyes on the ball WHILE moving the body to the rim.

    CAN he learn these things? Im sure he can. Heck, if he were more confident in his shot he could POP and shoot that 10-12 foot shot...but I'd rather see him roll. He's got some vert too...that low-post spin move LA use to do with Andre was money...if he could add that to the game, Mo could get the ball up there. (for that matter I dont know why we dont run T-rob, Will, and Nic more from the corner across the baseline for this...that line is open a lot of times since teams are watching the shooter.

    I dunno, Meyers is going to likely have to develop most of this OFF the court since it sounds like Joel might be back up and running for limited mins here soon.
     
  20. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    On a really positive note, Meyers is 5 fouls when guys ahead of him are in foul trouble and he's money at the freethrow line. Not a bad thing to have for a 3rd string bench player who's 7'1. I fully expect him to take on the challenge and at least try to accomplish what Joel did last summer and if he doesn't, we need future draft picks at the trade deadline.
     

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