What a great country we live in! Couple fined for not hosting same-sex marriage

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by OSUBlazerfan, Nov 10, 2014.

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  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    What 1st amendment right are you basing refusal of service?

    Constitution is a problem for the law in the case of the farm, doesn't apply to your analogy. I
     
    Denny Crane, Nov 11, 2014
    #101
  2. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    This is such a sticky topic.

    Normally I am 100% against any kind of discrimination, but this is a religious ceremony. They aren't calling it a civil union or a domestic partnership. It's a marriage, which is a religious ceremony. Would you force these people to allow pagans to perform a ceremony on their property? If someone wanted to sacrifice a live calf to Zeus, would you force the owners to allow it? They said they don't have anything against gay people specifically. It's the ceremony they don't want to perform.

    So while I am against discrimination, I can see their argument. I honestly don't know what my opinion is, one way or the other.
     
    Natebishop3, Nov 11, 2014
    #102
  3. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Not correct. I'm married, and it sure as hell wasn't a religious ceremony in any sense of the word. Marriage CAN be a religious ceremony, but it can also not be.

    "I don't have anything against black people specifically, I just don't want them eating at my lunch counter."

    barfo
     
    barfo, Nov 11, 2014
    #103
  4. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Since when have the laws ever said that marriage is only for religious people?

    barfo
     
    barfo, Nov 11, 2014
    #104
  5. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    So? Plenty of laws haven't been 'litigated yet'. Doesn't make them invalid.

    Good, glad to hear they are now in compliance with the law.

    Huff and puff all you want, but all you are doing is offering your opinion about what you think the rules should be. The business needs to follow the rules as they are, not as Denny thinks they should be.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Nov 11, 2014
    #105
  6. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    To these people, marriage IS a religious ceremony. How is allowing black people to eat the same as performing a ceremony that binds two people together?
     
    Natebishop3, Nov 11, 2014
    #106
  7. julius

    julius I wonder if there's beer on the sun Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Wait, hold the phone...barfo is married?!?
     
    julius, Nov 11, 2014
    #107
  8. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    To these people, marriage is a business. If they don't want to be in the marriage business, and follow the rules of the marriage business, they should get out of the business. They don't have to change their beliefs. They also don't have to be in the marriage business.

    The same? No, it's not the same. But it's not clear why the differences should allow discrimination in one case and not the other.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Nov 11, 2014
    #108
  9. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

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    I took it as, the "Barfo Religion" dictates such that black people can't eat at his lunch counters. Business owners should not be allowed to discriminate against people based on their religious views.
     
    blue32, Nov 11, 2014
    #109
  10. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    So if I run a business that performs Christian weddings and only Christian weddings, and I clearly define on my website what I view as a Christian wedding, should I be forced to perform a Muslim wedding or a Hindu wedding or a Pagan wedding? I'm just curious, because I want to know what the brightline is.
     
    Natebishop3, Nov 11, 2014
    #110
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    They didn't follow the bullshit unconstitutional laws. Huff and puff away. Or just puff away.

    The 1st amendment states that government shall establish no religion. Mandating that a religious ceremony of any kind occur on anyone's private property is establishment of religion (any religion but the property owner's).

    You want separation of church and state? When it comes to schools? Well, you got it. You're stuck with it.
     
    Denny Crane, Nov 11, 2014
    #111
  12. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I think there's a big difference here between performing weddings and renting space out where weddings are held.
    This case involves the latter, not the former. Of course someone who performs Christian weddings cannot be forced to perform a Muslim wedding, just as a welder can't be forced to make a quilt. Those are different jobs, requiring different skills.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Nov 11, 2014
    #112
  13. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

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    https://www.aclu.org/using-religion-discriminate
     
    blue32, Nov 11, 2014
    #113
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    ACLU isn't always right.

    What they say may be true in some cases, but when the farm sells services (just not religious ceremonies) to LGBT people and hires them, it's hard to find any cause whatsoever for discrimination.
     
    Denny Crane, Nov 11, 2014
    #114
  15. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Ah, 'bullshit unconstitutional laws". Good luck with that.

    Also, who says the ceremony the lesbians wanted to have was a religious ceremony? The lesbians might be non-religious, for all you know.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Nov 11, 2014
    #115
  16. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    "The restaurant hires black people as dishwashers, and let's them get take-out from the back door (they just can't sit at the lunch counter), so it's hard to find any cause whatsoever for discrimination."

    barfo
     
    barfo, Nov 11, 2014
    #116
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Your kind thought the gun laws in Illinois and DC were legit. You lose on this one, too.

    It doesn't matter what flavor of or non religion the lesbians are. The government effectively establishes every other religion but the farm OWNERS.
     
    Denny Crane, Nov 11, 2014
    #117
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Strawman. I agree the law prohibits discrimination based upon race and not religion.

    What strawman are you going to stand up next?
     
    Denny Crane, Nov 11, 2014
    #118
  19. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    You don't know that. Many venues have strict policies about who can perform the wedding. I'm getting married in about a year and the venues we chose have strict requirements for what caterers we can use, what ministers we can use, etc. There are some venues that require that you use a sustainable caterer. You can either choose to abide by those requirements, or not and go somewhere else.

    The crux of the matter is whether you believe that being gay is a choice or something that you are born with. Some people believe it's something you are born with, others believe it's a choice. The problem seems to lie with the people who think it's a choice. Personally I have known a lot of gay people and had gay friends. I think it's something you are born with, which would make it no different than being black or white or blind or deaf.

    But, I still think marriage is historically a religious ceremony. Doesn't matter which religion, but it has been a religious deal between people who whichever god they recognize. So if one venue is owned by people of one religion, I think it's not unreasonable to respect that religion.
     
    Natebishop3, Nov 11, 2014
    #119
  20. BlazerWookee

    BlazerWookee UNTILT THE DAMN PINWHEEL!

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    I'm mentally anguished...
     
    BlazerWookee, Nov 11, 2014
    #120
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