there's a difference between sampling the whole melody of a song like Nas did and Diddy did, and what guys like Kanye does. DJ Premier samples all kinds of stuff and makes it COMPLETELY his own. Premier's and Kanye's samples should NOT be lumped in with the Diddy samples. Voodoo, a lot of rap tracks DO sample other hip-hop tracks. Jay-Z's classic debut album was crazy when it came out cause it had two songs that had as their main hook, sampled voices of recent hits by other rappers - D'Evils sampled Snoop's voice as the hook and Dead Presidents II sampled Nas's voice. Sampling Parliament was already being done, but this was the first time I heard that being done. But it is not just hip-hop. WHat about that Rihanna song that rips off Soft Cell Tainted Love (80s classic)? And then Nelly Furtado has this track Maneater that rips Hall & Oates. Need I mention Vanilla Ice - ripping under pressure, then he had the nerve to say that his was different. lol. If any of you have tried making music, it is VERY VERY hard to come up with something that has not been done by someone, somewhere. There are only so many notes on the keyboard. Practically every melody was done in classical music 2 or 3 hundred years ago. And just about every bassline has been thought, every kind of groove.......so I don't blame them for paying respect to the past.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If any of you have tried making music, it is VERY VERY hard to come up with something that has not been done by someone, somewhere. There are only so many notes on the keyboard. Practically every melody was done in classical music 2 or 3 hundred years ago. And just about every bassline has been thought, every kind of groove.......so I don't blame them for paying respect to the past.</div> Not true at all. I've made three albums on three different instruments (but mainly on the bass), none of which had anything on them that was in any way plagarized. <div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I find it incredibly ironic you're criticizing Rap / Hip-Hop for being mind-numbing, often nonsensical, randomly connected sentences, when you have a Red Hot Chilli Peppers logo in your avatar. </div> Care to elaborate on how RHCP is any of the above? I've never heard you play anything, but I'd guess you don't have 1/10th of the talent Flea has in his left testicle.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Care to elaborate on how RHCP is any of the above? I've never heard you play anything, but I'd guess you don't have 1/10th of the talent Flea has in his left testicle.</div> Flea is a mad genius, but what I think he meant is RHCP are known for their nonsensical lyrics - they have an album called the uplift mofo party plan - what the hell does that mean?? not to mention the lyrics to "nobody weird like me" i think that's what he was getting at.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Flea is a mad genius, but what I think he meant is RHCP are known for their nonsensical lyrics - they have an album called the uplift mofo party plan - what the hell does that mean?? not to mention the lyrics to "nobody weird like me" i think that's what he was getting at.</div> There's a huge difference between a band that actually writes music and a rapper that just writes words. RHCP is more than Kiedis you know. Besides, there are many poetic RHCP lyrics, and many that seem outwardly nonsensical but have deeper meaning. Sure, they have a lot of fun, funky songs with abstract lyrics, but I'm not comparing the lyrics that Kiedis wrote on those songs to the lyrics that rappers write in any way. I'm comparing the entire musical package to that of a rapper. And even if you're not a fan of Kiedis' lyrics, in the post-BSSM era he's been doing a lot of singing, something you likely won't see a rapper doing. Still don't get the comparison...
Sampling goes both ways, like phun said. If it's done properly and the artist actually tries to use his own perspective and make the tune his own it can be great. That's like the equivalent of a rock band doing a cover. And then there are the cases where artists try to rip a catchy tune to cover up for their own crappiness.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Care to elaborate on how RHCP is any of the above? I've never heard you play anything, but I'd guess you don't have 1/10th of the talent Flea has in his left testicle.</div> Absolutley, hence why I myself am not a musician, I simply dont have the talent. But, I never said I was more talented than Flea, so I dont get your point? <div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Flea is a mad genius, but what I think he meant is RHCP are known for their nonsensical lyrics - they have an album called the uplift mofo party plan - what the hell does that mean?? not to mention the lyrics to "nobody weird like me" i think that's what he was getting at.</div> This is exactly what I meant. I wouldnt say he is a genius, but Flea is very talented, he's a great singer, but to criticize Hip-Hop for not making sense, and then proclaim yourself as a RHCP fan is a bit of a contradiction, as many of their songs / albums make little to no sense themselves. As an avid fan of Hip-Hop, I just feel it is my responsibility to defend the genre.
<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Absolutley, hence why I myself am not a musician, I simply dont have the talent. This is exactly what I meant. I wouldnt say he is a genius, but Flea is very talented, he's a great singer, but to criticize Hip-Hop for not making sense, and then proclaim yourself as a RHCP fan is a bit of a contradiction, as many of their songs / albums make little to no sense themselves. As an avid fan of Hip-Hop, I just feel it is my responsibility to defend the genre.</div> I wasn't attacking the whole genre (even though it probably came off that way), because I still have my favorites (Mos Def, Common, The Roots, etc.). Essentially, what I was trying to get around to saying is that musicians in most other genres write music where rappers just write rhymes, and it's unfair for them to take the credit for someone else's hard work writing actual music.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I wasn't attacking the whole genre (even though it probably came off that way), because I still have my favorites (Mos Def, Common, The Roots, etc.). Essentially, what I was trying to get around to saying is that musicians in most other genres write music where rappers just write rhymes, and it's unfair for them to take the credit for someone else's hard work writing actual music.</div> Well thats just stupid, no one is claiming it as their own, alot of MC's are inspired by such songs, music, artists, and they simply take inspiration from it, they're not trying to claim it as their own at all. Rappers write songs aswell, its just a different form to say Rock, or Pop etc. Hence why we have different genres.
<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well thats just stupid, no one is claiming it as their own, alot of MC's are inspired by such songs, music, artists, and they simply take inspiration from it, they're not trying to claim it as their own at all. Rappers write songs aswell, its just a different form to say Rock, or Pop etc. Hence why we have different genres.</div> Rappers don't write songs. They write lyrics. There's a difference. Any rambling idiot can write a rap, but it takes talent to play an instrument. And no one is claiming it as their own? It's his feature single off his new record, which he'll pull in a ton of money from, and where in the song does he pay tribute to Iron Butterfly? I must have missed that part. The majority of the ignorant masses will give credit to Nas for that song and buy the album.
And what, Rock is music? Any angry moron can scream into a microphone. Dont you see how stupid what you're saying is? You need to realize that Rock isnt the definition of music, thats the great thing about music, theres all different forms of it, each genre has its flaws, and its strengths, you just have to respect that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And no one is claiming it as their own? It's his feature single off his new record, which he'll pull in a ton of money from, and where in the song does he pay tribute to Iron Butterfly? I must have missed that part. The majority of the ignorant masses will give credit to Nas for that song and buy the album.</div> It's obviously a song that has inspired him to write to it, if people dont know that he didnt do the original, then thats their problem. He obviously has gotten permission to sample the song, and if you look in the booklet in the CD, you'll see credit is given to the original artist. C'mon now VC, I would've expected you to know better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And what, Rock is music? Any angry moron can scream into a microphone. Dont you see how stupid what you're saying is? You need to realize that Rock isnt the definition of music, thats the great thing about music, theres all different forms of it, each genre has its flaws, and its strengths, you just have to respect that. </div> What an ignorant statement. First of all, you understand there is more to rock music than the vocals, right? Thanks. Now that we have that established, let me explain to you how it takes years of work and talent to master an instrument to the level to where you can perform with it. It takes devotion, time, effort, and practicing until your fingers bleed. Rapping is nothing that takes practice, nor is it an innate skill. It is something that anyone can do. As for your oh-so witty attack on rock vocals, rock vocals require singing, rap vocals require talking. There's an inherent difference. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's obviously a song that has inspired him to write to it, if people dont know that he didnt do the original, then thats their problem. He obviously has gotten permission to sample the song, and if you look in the booklet in the CD, you'll see credit is given to the original artist. C'mon now VC, I would've expected you to know better.</div> C'mon now NTC, I would've expected you to read my damn posts. The guy who wrote the song is dead and gone. How can he give permission? And almost all rap fans have no damn clue who Iron Butterfly is.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What an ignorant statement. First of all, you understand there is more to rock music than the vocals, right? Thanks. Now that we have that established, let me explain to you how it takes years of work and talent to master an instrument to the level to where you can perform with it. It takes devotion, time, effort, and practicing until your fingers bleed. Rapping is nothing that takes practice, nor is it an innate skill. It is something that anyone can do.</div> You mean what an ignorant statement from yourself? I was simply trying to point out how stupid your comment ("Any rambling idiot can write a rap") was. I know there is more to Rock than the vocals, but there is also more to Hip-Hop than "talking". Rapping is somthing anyone can do? I'm not even going to justify this with a response. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">C'mon now NTC, I would've expected you to read my damn posts. The guy who wrote the song is dead and gone. How can he give permission? </div> I read your post, I was just having a hard time picking out decent points in between all the ignorance that filled it. Maybe he got permission to use the song from who ever now owns the rights to it? And if no one owns the rights to it, whats the problem? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And almost all rap fans have no damn clue who Iron Butterfly is.</div> Thats correct, and no one cares either. While we're on the topic of stealing other genres songs, I never heard of The Vines giving OutKast credit for their cover of 'Ms. Jackson' There was no need for this topic, it was simply a way for you to blast a music genre you dont like, an opinion which would've been better kept to yourself.
<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You mean what an ignorant statement from yourself? I was simply trying to point out how stupid your comment ("Any rambling idiot can write a rap") was. I know there is more to Rock than the vocals, but there is also more to Hip-Hop than "talking". Rapping is somthing anyone can do? I'm not even going to justify this with a response.</div> That's because it's true, and you can't. You think it's ignorant because you've apparently built your entire musical tastes around hip-hop and are in denial that what you're listening to is about as easy as riding a bike. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I read your post, I was just having a hard time picking out decent points in between all the ignorance that filled it. Maybe he got permission to use the song from who ever now owns the rights to it? And if no one owns the rights to it, whats the problem?</div> You love throwing around the word 'ignorant' too much. Expand your vocabulary of begin pointing out exactly how I am ignorant, or keep quiet. It's not a matter of legally owning the rights. It's a matter of passing off someone else's work as your own and preying off of their musical abilities, which he is blatantly doing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats correct, and no one cares either. While we're on the topic of stealing other genres songs, I never heard of The Vines giving OutKast credit for their cover of 'Ms. Jackson' There was no need for this topic, it was simply a way for you to blast a music genre you dont like, an opinion which would've been better kept to yourself.</div> The Vines... no one outside of your hemisphere gives a **** about the Vines. They're not very good musicians. There was no need for this topic, yet you felt the need to create a topic rambling on and on about your sophmoric attraction to some skank you work with? This is an off-topic forum. Also, again, you should read my damn posts before you fill up this thread with your uninformed replies. I said above that I do, in fact, like certain artists of the genre, but do not like the distasteful exploiting of rock music, a concept you obviously missed but many apparently agree with me on.
<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I find it incredibly ironic you're criticizing Rap / Hip-Hop for being mind-numbing, often nonsensical, randomly connected sentences, when you have a Red Hot Chilli Peppers logo in your avatar. </div>And what's wrong with RHCP? If you think they have no musical talent, you've obviously never listened to their music. There's a reason why they've been around for so long, and that's one of them. Flea is one of the better bassists of our time while Slovak is a pretty good guitar player in his own right. Beyond that, I think Anthony Kiedis might be one of the more underrated vocalists out there. And also, at least they write their own music. You don't see them sampling music from everyone else. They write their own stuff and don't rip off everyone else.
