Maybe you aren't tuned to debating... You outline arguments accordingly. That 1-4 outline have no relevance to one another as one argument. It's just rambling.
I'd say he is evil and spiteful in the bible, yes. ANd because I see him described as all knowing and powerful, I don't think it's a contradiction to say it is ok for man to punish, but not god.
This is very easy to answer. If you have infinite knowledge "omnipresence" then all options are open. Since murder has been, then it always has been. If lying has been, then it always has been. Understand? So when God created man, these possibilities always existed. God knew them, but his perfection had the ability to overcome those temptations. When God made man, he made them without sin because he took away those thoughts... Or like it was argued by Minstral in the other thread "Why couldn't God make a perfect world?" But since these sins always existed, they are part of the equation. And since man has free will, then man had a choice to understand temptation. Our choice, our punishment
Now we are getting somewhere! So you think man is evil and spiteful then? and for the sake of the argument, we will use the bible as a theoretical truth, since that book is how you determine why God is evil and spiteful okay?
so something else created god? If he's all powerful, then he'd in theory have the power to create the equation, instead of saying "well, sin's just a part of it, so be it. Nothing I can do about that"
No, those choices or sin has always existed, just as God has always existed. There was no start of sin. Sin was there as God was there. There was never any other option:
and once again, you are back to where I ask, so..you blame God for giving man free will..again you might as well blame gravity if you are dumb enough to walk off a cliff
NOt at all. I said they can be evil and spiteful. That some have those traits. Saying man is evil and spiteful in some instances does not at all equate to man is evil for punishing people. Which is where you said the contradiction arises from.
The contradiction is from the argument... That argument of "Why should I love or believe in God when he is evil and spiteful"?, using hell as proof. Yet here you are loving man for acting in the same manner.
Why is it unreasonable for the atheist to say that if God did exist, any punishment would be God's fault for giving man free will? If the argument is: 1) God created with free will 2) God punishes man for exercising free will Therefore, it is God's fault that man is punished. Where is the fallacy in that argument? Before you attempt a terrestrial analogy keep in mind: a) Man did not choose to be created b) Man did not choose to be given free will These two facts create a significant difference between man's position with other men and man's position with God.
I don't love all of mankind equally. and, AGAIN, man being evil and god being evil are on different planes, to me.
Thank you for giving a very good outline! And this only outlines the contradiction. As I told RR7 earlier... 1) Man knows free will causes harm 2.) Man decides to procreate, knowing free will will harm their children 3.) Therefore, it is man's fault for bringing children to this world. Same applies, which supports the contradicting claim.
Loving one man is all you need to make your statement a total contradiction Lets say you got 1 billion math equations right, but missed 1 + 1 = 2 Well you didn't get a perfect score.
Your math equation is...babbling really. Whatever Man punishes evil actions. god of the bible punishes disbelief with an eternity in hell. Also punishes other actions with a similar fate. Man didn't design from scratch, man. I think the creator of EVERYTHING should be held to a higher standard than that which he created if he is all knowing and all powerful. If man was all powerful and all knowing, then I would have a similar anger at them for sending someone to prison for life without parole.
Not at all. There are two ways to view this--from the theist perspective, and from the atheist perspective. From the theist perspective--God creates life, not man. Any life created through procreation is created by God, so He is sitll responsible. From the atheist perspective--Man creates life, but free will does not necessarily produce harm, only the natural result of choices. Good and bad are relative based on perspective. Your argument involves schools of thought from two incompatible perspectives, (item 1 is from the theist, item 2 is from the atheist), so your argument cannot hold water.
