<div class="quote_poster">Quoting geezy:</div><div class="quote_post">My 2 cents...Dunleavy sucks. He needs to go by any means necessary. Trade him, waive him, let him sign some where else...in my opinion, he's not even worth being a bench warmer. A consolation prize for him if they sent him packing...give him a 24hr fitness guest pass for 2 weeks since he thinks taking off his shirt cuz he gets ejected is a novel idea.</div> Waiving him??? That's crazy. He doesn't suck as much as he used to when he was airballing free throws, flopping around without playing honest defense, and bricking open J's... I think he just needs a lot more time and help in order to succeed. He also needs to be placed against the right matchups. When he plays aggressive he does some solid things and when he's not being blown away by some stud athlete that can drive and shoot, he's an adequate defender. Unfortunately for him he's going to be outmatched on two fronts most nights since guard/forward is interchangeable and he's either outmuscled or outquicked. But on the other hand, the guy gets so many ticky tacky fouls on defense that I feel sorry for him that he can't demonstrate how he can be valuable just by making the extra pass or being that third scorer when he's on a roll. He's not as bad as you think, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he's the next Larry Bird like some scouts were saying he'd turn out to be. One thing he does have is excellent vision, quick thinking and floor awareness and that was key in Duke's win in the NCAA. Do I think he's on the right team where he's going to smoke people? I don't know, but sometimes it doesn't seem like it. He needs the ball in his hands more to be effective, he needs more of the team game that has died decades ago, and he needs to decide whether he's going to be a role player or he's going to be a person who can elevate his game whenever the team needs it from him. He's really passive at times when he needs to be more assertive. He's also got the Stephen Hawkins factor going against him. Great basketball knowledge, wrong body for playing the perimeter. He should be a power forward since he's a great rebounder and can take a lot of other power forwards off the dribble with fluidity and finesse. That's where the Larry Bird comparrisons came in, although it's laughable to even mention an NBA great to a guy that doesn't really fit the same personality or the uncanny shooting ability and range. Dun would be a good bench player, but he's not really proving he's a long term starter, especially if the new drafts have comparable skills. They may not be as tall, but they could be more effective in one position as a starter rather than any of the 4 that Dunleavy can play.
Dunleavy had a nice game today. Very efficient stats against the Sonics. I think as long as the criticizing keeps continuing he'll be even better than expected.
The notion Duns was a Larry Bird likely caused him to get drafted at least 10 slots higher than his talent indicated,but that also leaves him a double burden of expectations,as he won't justify a 3rd slot pick,nor will he be even a fair imitation of Bird. He is a fairly good player,versatile,but not ideal in any role. If he made more of his passing skills and improved his shooting %,2's and 3's,maybe got a bit more athletic,at least a bit stronger,he could elevate his game,but I don't expect real major improvements in any of those areas. Currently Pietrus and Zarko are getting bigger shares of the SF minutes and Murphy is moving better,now that he's in game shape after his injury-this means less role for Dunleavy. It also can mean IF the W's want to make a post season deal,logically,he would be the guy apt to go. If Dunleavy won't get the team anything they want,then he stays and when the time comes,the W's make him a reasonable,but not huge offer to re-sign. How the draft works out for the W's also may impact Dunleavy,since F is where the solid value is.
You guys are all making the presumption that Cohan will not pay the luxury tax. The reason the tax kicks in is because of Baron Davis' contract. Cohan has never come out and said shed contracts because of the $$$. Look back and see how the team has been "capped out" since at least the late 90's. The team could not sign Arenas or Cardinal because the Warriors were maxed out. The Warriors have been consistently in the top 10 in payroll the past six or seven years. Bad decisions, but $$$ spent nonetheless. Cohan has shown his willingness to spend $$ and I do not think he will stop now. There are no worries otherwise because Pietrus, Zarko and even Skita are 1st rounders and the Warriors can match any offer for them without worrying about the salary cap. Now are the Warriors unable to make free agent offers? Yes, unless there is a sign and trade but how many big name FAs move teams without a sign and trade? Almost zip because the original team can pay more. You can dream all you want about a Yao or other "big" but they are not moving without a sign and trade. Dunleavy is a valuable asset. You do not just get rid of an asset. Yes Pietrus is showing good improvement but there is still no getting around that you cannot win with Baron, JRich and Pietrus all playing huge minutes together regularly because Pietrus and JRich are too small to guard the SFs playing. I do like the Warriors going small though with them and Dunleavy together because they can outquick other teams.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There are no worries otherwise because Pietrus, Zarko and even Skita are 1st rounders and the Warriors can match any offer for them without worrying about the salary cap.</div>Skita will be an unrestricted free agent... he's only signed through this year, we have no right to match any offer he may get. On that note... smart money says we won't be on the team next year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriors Redux:</div><div class="quote_post">Skita will be an unrestricted free agent... he's only signed through this year, we have no right to match any offer he may get. On that note... smart money says we won't be on the team next year.</div> I guess the option was not exercised on him last year extending his contract. No big deal.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">I guess the option was not exercised on him last year extending his contract. No big deal.</div><font color="Navy">Correct</font>
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm First, Warriors were nowhere near top 10 in payroll for last 6-7 years. As a matter of fact, I can't even recall the time when we broke top 20 in payroll during that period. We have biggest payroll right now since Cohan took over, and we are still at 20th. I give Cohan a credit that many times, he opened his wallet to pay players, but he was never mistaken for big time spending owner. Certainly, we couldn't keep Arenas. However, Cohan was unwilling to promise Arenas that he will sign Arenas a max after staying one more year with us. Instead, Cohan went ahead and dumped another max player, Jamison, for nothing. Second, while I do believe that Cohan will pay luxury tax for some extent, what make you think that Cohan will definitely pay luxury tax, when he also never came out and say he will, and he never went close to luxury tax line? If Cohan does not pay luxury tax, it's not a matter of whether who we can keep or not. We can't even keep Davis, Richardson, Murphy, Foyle, and Fisher alone. Yes, we can completely be screwed, although I don't think Mullin pulled Davis trade without some sort of promise that Cohan is willing to bite some of luxury tax. Third, even if Cohan may pay luxury tax for some extent, how much will he pay? You have to remember that Cohan or any owner in the league does not make tons of money by running basketball club. According to Phobe, net profit may be 5-10 mils per year at best, if you don't lose money by running it. I have zero idea how much it will cost to keep all our young players, but I think 75 mils should be able to keep most of FAs we want. But, if Cohan does that (which I highly doubt), he will not only lose 15-20 mils by luxury tax, he will also lose entire potion of rebate from the league, which can be 5-10 mils. Sure, bumping up ticket price will help some extend, but that won't come anywhere near close to cover the expense. Will Cohan willing to sacrifice 10-20 mils or more per year, when he managed not to lose money? I seriously doubt that why he will suddenly become a big spender. IMO, Cohan may spend around 65 mils at best and break top 10 barrier. But, other than that, I just don't see that he will open his wallet and become one of top 4 biggest spending owner all of sudden. And, if we spend 65 mils, we really have to make a hard choice just to manage our salary for the future, because we definitely can't keep everybody in that salary...
I'm pretty pessimistic like Kwan about the Warriors being able to keep everybody. Obviously, Mullin likes Dunleavy for several reasons, but who knows if Mullin will start doing what he did last offseason with the huge six year deals. The biggest upside to Dunleavy is that he was a winner in the NCAA, and Mullin thinks it can translate to the same/similar improvements that Richardson has shown this season (and then some with the addition of Baron Davis). Richardson was a part of his college team's championship win with the Spartans and I'm sure Mullin believes the same that Dunleavy was for his Blue Devils. Dun's numbers might earn him a 5.5 to 7 mils a year which is not horrible, but if he wants more than that, Dunleavy's got to ask himself does he want to be part of a team that's turning the corner where the GM supports him 100% or is he going to test free agency. It's all blind faith up until the day it's time for Cohan to pony up and support Mullin in terms of which players to keep in order to make a run deep into the playoffs and hopefully someday a title. I'll believe it when I see Cohan actually is willing to go beyond what he is expected to do in meeting players salary demands (without grossly overpaying). I would just rather keep that small forward spot open until the very end, so long as we have bird rights, so that we can finally decide who is best at starting forward. If Mullin can threaten to match any offer because Cohan will allow it, that would be great. But, if Dunleavy gets locked up before there's any moves to be made with Zarko or Pietrus, they may just want to go to some other team where they can become starters and for decent money. The future is uncertain, but hopefully everything that is happening right now goes beyond our expectations. I see Dunleavy right now as kind of a role player, starting or off the bench, it doesn't matter. I just hope they don't jump the gun unless their hunches are that good that he'll be playin like a 8 to 10 mil player in the future.
As is,I don't see Dunleavy as a player who teams will bid recklessly for. The numbers are decent,but many teams have a f who is as good,or better,and many have a rising prospect-or will after the draft.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">As is,I don't see Dunleavy as a player who teams will bid recklessly for. The numbers are decent,but many teams have a f who is as good,or better,and many have a rising prospect-or will after the draft.</div> Well it's pretty much known that small forward has to be one of the most hard to play positions because it requires you to be a versatile player if you want to be the man. Chris Mullin obviously knows this. I think versatility will be key in this matchup since you can play a guard at forward to matchup with quicker forwards or you can play a power forward at forward to post up on offense. Dunleavy is versatile, but he's not using his physical matchups to his strength at times. Dunleavy's got guard skills, but no quickness and he's not strong enough to bang and post up. But all these things could be worked on if he wants it badly and starts playing with the passion that scouts said he had before going into the NBA and work on that physical conditioning. He also needs to keep up that hustling he seems to be doing on defense. If he's getting called for fouls at least he's trying to be physical. But the refs don't respect him that much probably because of his earlier flop fest and the fact he's kind of slow (so they give the other guy the benefit of the doubt if he happens to be quicker). But anyway I'm rambling. You're right he's decent. Not kickass, but certainly better than some of the forwards that you see that can't do much of anything.
Just wanted to chime in here. I think that he's worth keeping looking at all the circumstances. First, it is unknown how the new CBA will deal with the luxury tax. This year, the bar was set at $60 million. It's calculated by average salaries and I predict the salary rise, bar massive CBA changes to how it's calculated, to be about $62 million next year. Assuming no new major signings, this will be more than enough to sign Dunleavy (it's about $10 million). But what is he worth? To look at Dunleavy's value, consider what other teams might want Dunleavy. There's few good free agents small forwards so unless a team finds a gem in the draft or via trade, they're going to have to wait until 2006, when Dunleavy, Prince, Van Horn, Butler and Tim Thomas become available. I don't know the trade buzz, but most teams probably think that he'd be a starter or top 6th man. What other teams could he fit on? The Hornets have a hole at most positions. They'll have a ton of money. But they'll have to fill up other positions too. The Heat could use a small forward, though their salary is quite limited. They've had Eddie Jones there while Rasual Butler's been injured. The Bucks could probably fit him in with Desmond Mason, where he'd probably fit in with the basic style the bucks have been playing. Depending how much Redd commands, they should have an average amount of cash. The Bobcats would consider him if Gerald Wallace doesn't step up and improve his game. The Cats will have plenty of cash in the 2006 offseason, but they may also pursue other free agents before they pursue Dunleavy. Finally, the Blazers might sign him if Miles is comfortable with the 2, especially since Dun has a pretty clean image around the league, notwithstanding his recent shirt-tearing outburst. They will have limited money. So of the teams that might want Dunleavy only the Hornets and the Bobcats expect to have any money to pay Dunleavy over $6 million a year. The W's could easily match the salary another team offers him since he's restricted with Bird Rights. Personally, I say yes if he accepts going at that price. If he doesn't work out a salary of that amount is easily moveable, especially for a younger player. The amount of teams willing to trade for him increases considerably. I just don't think he's worth trading now at this moment, unless in conjunction with other uneccessary players, because there aren't many players with good salaries that we could take back that would really help the team.
Good stuff, Zhone. I think with the gamut of small forwards we face each night (from tweeners like Jamison/Shareef to power guards like Finley/Posey), having Dunleavy, Zarko, and Pietrus is a pretty solid response offensively to whatever the other team throws at us. Defensively, it's up to those guys to give it their all even though physically they may get outmuscled or just plain beat. It's not about who starts anyway, it's about who finishes anyway and I'm hoping Dunleavy doesn't think he's the man and starts getting greedy and asks for Troy Murphy type money. Also we wouldn't want to lose Zarko or Pietrus to other teams because they want more playing time or they want to start. I hope winning is the incentive for them to stay since they've been on a horrible team the first half of the season. Out of all the teams you suggested, I'd imagine the Bucks would love him and maybe Charlotte. After all Charlotte tried to bring back Christian Laetner didn't they? I think with all the other teams you mentioned that are over the cap they'd try to bring some minimum salary training camp invitee. Most likely a guy like Ansu Sesay or Chris Jeffries or maybe a vet like Michael Curry. If they wanted Dunleavy bad they'd have to give us something good since the ball should be in our court with a year to decide on him.
Any team that would get in a bidding war for Dunleavy would need to see him as a probable starter The Bobcats will want players and his Duke history adds value for them. How much would they want to overpay? If the W's are this hot next year would Dunleavy accept less to stay on than the Bobcats might offer? While this hot as hell finish is messing with the W's draft slot,it has to have given them a big boost in the eyes of free agent possibles. The plot thickens
He showed some quickness going to the rim that he had not shown previously. Maybe just the Suns D but something Dun had not shown before.
