Rumor What's going on in Portland?

one level to this shit is that cops abusing power are not these good cops....nor should they get to hide behind these good cops.....I know the local sheriff well...he's a great guy....my cousin has been sheriff of my hometown in Iowa for many decades....he doesn't carry a gun on his belt...never needed too....you will be hard pressed to find an Irish american like me without a cop in the family and a fireman......it's a tradition. None of this excuses abusing power.....if a protester in DC beat a cop with a fire extinguisher turns out to be a dentist...I don't start hating dentists....perspective....I know of nobody who condones police violence or racial profiling just to support the cops nor anyone who hates all cops.....false equivalency....and for those who might not know...HCP was a military policeman...blanket statements are bs and this is a court of public opinion...not a court of law. There has long been an abuse of power with the police systems in our country...well documented..good cops will clean their own house instead of cover up for bad cops. The old system was, cops don't snitch on cops no matter what...maybe they should from time to time.

 

This is the problem you're having on the forum. You keep boiling down nuanced arguments to stupid strawman extremes. Like the above--no one has said every cop is bad. What people have said is A. police forces in general are being utilized in extremely bad ways (military equipment, escalation policies, little representation from the communities they police, etc) and B. all cops do share a responsibility not to enable the bad (i.e. abusive and/or murderous) cops by closing ranks and "protecting the badge" from any accountability.

Those are the types of arguments people have been making and, whether you agree or disagree, there are thoughtful arguments to be made around those issues. Instead, you decide in your head that "the liberals are arguing all cops are bad which is CRAZY rofl wtf do you guys hear yourselves?" and then act aggrieved when people try to explain to you that you aren't correctly understanding people's positions and then spend months informing the forum that there's a group of bullshitters who won't admit to "what they said" and post a bunch of quotes that you still don't understand and, when explained again, you just say "no way theyre just trying to cover their asses they mean what I assumed they mean"

 

oh yeah, what does fuck 12 mean again?

12 are all cops. Fuck 12 is all cops...


Keep arguing your semantics. You are wrong... again.
Even you @Minstrel said its inevitable. And condone the rioting....

i just got these posts ( some more relevant than others) in the first few pages of the floyd killing three. Im sure there are more if i wanted to waste more time but finding the fuck12 is enough evidence to prove that some indeed do think all cops see bad and said so in saying fuck 12.

Now lets see the spin evolve off of this one. and im the strawman... lol.
Ill accept your apology anytime. And will not hold a grudge.

 

Fuck 12

 

I don't think he was talking about you, Chris.

 

I am ancient and have no concept of time. It takes me half an hour to walk across the street provided they have cutouts at each corner of the intersection. If they don't have cutouts it can take me days.

 

Orion,
I should and will keep out of this because I would only inflame things and I wish that all of you would do the same because you are ONLY inflaming things. Should any of you be making progress toward a meeting of the minds, such as Steve Allen displayed in his regular TV show "Meeting of Minds", I wouldn't be saying this. At this point you are all being counterproductive.
Hey, I just thought of something, if you would all get pissed at me for saying this then you could all have something in common and I will have served my purpose.

 

Inevitable doesn't mean right or acceptable. I said that directly in the quote you tried to use. You either mix up word meanings or choose to ignore what people say in order to argue.

 

It was pointed out to me that I didn't address this and that if I didn't, it might be because I was dodging it. So I'll explain this. "Fuck 12" means fuck the police in general, not damn every single human working in the police as devils. Just as people who say "fuck government" aren't literally saying every human working in the government deserves to go to hell, "fuck 12" doesn't generally mean every cop is a bad cop. It means that the US police force is a bad organization, for systemic reasons. It resists any accountability as an organization, protecting even the bad cops from prosecution, it accepts and even demands military vehicles and weapons for use in American neighborhoods and it often employs and empowers bullies to be abusive. More can be added to this list of deeply problematic issues inherent in our nation's police forces.

That doesn't mean every cop is a bully or abusive or bad. It means that the organization has structural rot. That's what "fuck 12" means. It's entirely compatible with the idea that ordinary and even noble people can be policemen and policewomen.

 

City of Portland update:
Just got home from a fantastic walk with my daughter along the waterfront. Beautiful day.

 

Portland is lovely when the cherry blossoms and Antifa destruction are in bloom.

 

While I think your overall point is valid, there's a problem in your view of the police as a singular organization with singular problems and singular lack of accountability. I think that view is probably widespread in minority communities and that it's implicit in the adoption of the "fuck 12" phrase as applying to all police everywhere. The reality, of course, is that there are multiple police agencies involved in enforcing the law at the federal, state and local levels. They all have different people in charge and answer to different levels of government. They have differing policies and differing ways of dealing with cops who violate those policies. None of them are perfect, but I think that in order to get to any kind of meaningful change, we need to recognize that this isn't a monolithic structure and that the changes that need to occur are likely different with each police agency. Undoubtedly, there are commonalities, but there are also significant differences.

 

It's true that there isn't a single unified police force, but the problems I mentioned are endemic around the nation, at the state level and many times at local levels. Federal police, i.e. FBI/ATF/ICE/etc, are a little bit different and have their own issues and obviously some tiny town's police force may not manifest all these issues. And beyond that, some police forces are run a bit differently and may even try their best to avoid these pitfalls.

So while I say that policing in the US is a major problem, I recognize that there are differences along the spectrum. That's why, when it comes to solutions, I thought Obama and Holder had the right idea: a set of guidelines for what police forces should abide by and a precinct-by-precinct audit. Obviously a huge undertaking--one that wasn't complete by the time Obama's second term was done and one that Trump immediately ended upon taking power--but well worth it, IMO.

 

That sounds to me like a reasonable plan. Hopefully, Biden and Garland will pick it up and run with it. There are going to have to be positive steps taken to address legitimate concerns in the wake of the Floyd murder trial.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...-vaccine-passports-as-completely-unacceptable

Florida Gov. DeSantis Rejects Vaccine Passports As 'Completely Unacceptable'