Rumor What's going on in Portland?

It would be great if it were done nationally otherwise you're going to attract all the homeless from all over the country.

 

True - another result that has to be planned for. This can’t be just a local thing.

 

I get what you're saying. But is it more fair to spend more to hold them further down, for longer?

If there are requirements it will not work. The whole problem is they don't want to do what we tell them.

Maybe because of mental illness, maybe because of trauma, maybe because they have drug problems. But if they were interested in jumping through hoops they wouldn't be in their current situation.

 

What you're seeing now is a result of trying to do both.

 

It’s an unfortunate paradox that some of the biggest pussies on the planet have decided they are worthy of pursuing a career protecting the public.

 

The wife and I had dinner at BAES Chicken tonight. Down by Voodoo donuts. Owned by our good family friend Ndamukong Suh.
Beautiful evening out. Sat outside and enjoyed the fresh air. Highly recommended.

 

They were also up and down 17th. And on several intersections on killingsworth. And all over se 92ave.
and remember most are underneath the freeway overpass so you don't see them unless you exit.

 

read above. Hoopguru posted the news. I commented on it and you commented on mine. Following the trail you commented on led to my question.

 

Its indeed hard to fathom, having a good work ethic myself.

my only point of contention, of which it was noted that there arent numbers for the X factors, i believe will make housing them more expensive in the long run.
I suppose the question is, is the additional cost worth removing them from the streets?


Im in full disagreement that putting a roof over their head will improve their recovery of being a drug addict, of which almost half in portland are. It will help others and im open to that via some employment type program thst ifnds them a livable working wage and then weens them off the support.

I am for putting the addicts in rehab centers.

But the argument to that is its against the law to force them.
Well my answer to that is laws change all the time. We cant develop a system and incorporate new laws that provides a path to recovery and if they don't do it, and they continue to loiter and trash the streets, then they go to jail?

This is the same concept as mom giving the tantrum child candy to shut up.
very poor parenting and yes it may be harder but we find a better solution than paying for thier behavior even more so than we currently do.

That may sound callous but i don't care. After having exhausted all other options to provide help aNd having it denied to live the simpler, easier, addict life, my sympathy is removed and if they don't want to be a contributing part of society when offered help to do so, then They can go away.


Why would i stress over some stranger addict on the streets when im having to do the same thing to a loved one?

we cannot help these people until they decide they want to help themselves. It really does come down to that.

Ive wasted too much of my life trying to help those who dont give enough effort to help themselves.
Selfish? Oh well. Its my time now. Lol.

Im all about helping those who want it.

But they gotta want it.

my Uncle lives on a remote island in the philipines imo. Ill find the link to his drone video.

probably better for another discussion but ive been thinking about visiting him to see how the cukture is up close. He gives extremely high oraise to the level of importance family is etc.

When my grandmother who i moved near me and took over power of attorney on was on her last days, he came up and took her home over there and she was pampered night and day until the end. And when she passed all the natives camp out and mourn the loss for 30 days.
In an increasingly disconnected society, it sounds more and more pleasant to me.

 

It baffles me that people that support businesses and are willing to accept that there is overhead in businesses and not every investment makes money - are unwilling to invest in the most important resource of the economy - which is the workforce.

Making sure that people have a basic level of income, housing and health are the best investment this country can make. People who are not hungry, sick or live out in the streets are more likely than not going to find a way to contribute to society. So what if a certain percent of them will not and will be "free riders". Just like any other business - some of the investment is not going to be worth it - but without future-vision - you still make it.

universal healthcare and making sure people have basic living conditions is the most capitalistic thing we can do. The place where it goes wrong (communism) is where everyone earns the same no matter how much they contribute / produce. Universal healthcare and basic living support are not that - because they do not stop people that want more from working and earning more.

 

Ive known a number of serious drug addicts in my 70 years, some relatives, some friends while growing up, and Ive witnessed a few successful recoveries into being productive independent citizens working, thriving and surviving. There were two ways that worked 1) serious rehab with a progression plan 2) Long term jail or prison which forced sobriety to a point of making a decision to clean themselves up for another chance. I've witnessed some that were habitually failing at getting better because they were not wanting too and elected to live off others, and some became homeless, and one died. In these cases they were given many chances but didnt want to use them, its was always party time, crash, and do it again. The one fellow would be alive today im convinced, if he had been locked up for a few years to recalibrate his mind, body and decision making. Sad but for some it works, so what I would like to see is housing for those that want to use it, as a spring board but there has to be a level of commitment, free addiction rehab facilities where they can check into for a long enough period, even if its a year, to make progress. Our if they are bent on being vagrant and living on our streets doing drugs, harassing people, and whatever, send them a way for a while, behind locked doors for addicts, like a prison/rehab hospital/crazy house, whatever you want to call it and use federally funded money to help these people have another chance. For many out there today its the only way they have a chance to get well.

 

This is all based on prejudices, assumptions, and anecdotal evidence.

All actual data shows that it costs less to house them and cleans up the streets. Putting them in jail costs more than we're spending now.

What you are describing has been ruled unconstitutional. We do not change constitutional laws very often at all.

 

Certainly, but the treatment comes after housing them. Their caseworkers will gain a better idea of how best to help them during the homing process.

 

That makes since but not leaving the streets, they have to know it wont be tolerated and it could lead to incarceration or a period of time.
I remember vagrancy laws when they were enforced.

 

Bottom line imo if it takes over more of the city and downtown people will move out.

 

I would certainly support proven effective rehab programs, or jail if they are committing crimes to support their habit.

 

Agreed. We need to find a solution quick.

 

how can you say the data shows when you already admitted their are unquantifiable x factors that arent calculated?

Call it prejudiced. I dont care.
Not even sure of your point when you yourself admitted the things i brought up arent “calculable”.

So your data is also flawed.

 

are you familir with drug treatment programs?

many are in house?

so you want us to pay for a roof over thier head while they arent using it becuase they already have a roof over their head from an in house treatment facility?

why cant they be admitted to treatment first and then when they are better then we look for work and a home for them?

i still think your putting the cart before the horse aNd am not sure you have spent much close up time with addicts to truly know thier behavior. And how much they take until they are fixed.