Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Rastapopoulos, Jul 16, 2020.
You got a property slip from the cops, right? Once your charges are dismissed I'm sure they'll give them back.
I think there are two main threads in this story
* one is the state of the protests, and my take on them is 'enough-is-enough-already-for-chrissakes'. The arguments have been made and 50 days of protests have accomplished less than 30 days of protests because the law of diminishing returns has kicked in. The advancements in the arguments in the minds of the people, as a whole, are being eroded because a majority of people, such as myself, are tired of seeing the lawlessness, the damage and grafitti, and the rest. It's beginning to look like just the worst of an extended spring break riot. I understand the vast majority of the remaining protesters are peaceful, but at this point it's definitely a case of a few rotten apples destroying the harvest
* the other story is a much bigger one though, and that's trump potentially morphing into Pinochet with the aid of some horrible over-reactive laws created after 9-11
a recap of the tactics:
and an analysis of the legal justification:
that's truly a frightening article is you read with an analytical mind and just a smidgen of imagination
and here's a very important consideration about all this unrestrained power residing in the DHS: none of the leaders of the department have been confirmed by the Senate. we have an:
* acting Secretary of DHS
* acting Deputy Secretary
* acting head of Customs & Border Patrol
* acting Head of Ice
none of these people were qualified enough to get confirmed by the rubber stamp Senate. They are complete trump lackeys but they are the ones commanding the troops that are in Portland causing national alarm, and will soon spread to other cities unless something is done. Trump has found his war that will allow him to wag the dog, and the war is against American people
IMO, "the US is going to war against its own people" is non sense.
If the vagrants and anarchist would stop there tandrem's and property destruction peace and order would be restored.
Great example how the net flashes the mob....
Portland mayor demands Trump remove federal agents from city
bunk...did you see the guy who got shot in the head with a supposed non-lethal munition and needed surgery to repair a fractured skull (and face) and still has a tube in his brain to drain pressure? Did you see the peaceful protestors that were teargassed and battered aside so trump could have his fucking stupid photo-op in front of a church while holding a bible? Were all those people "vagrants and anarchists"? Was the guy in the hospital with the fractured skull?
you may as well chug the kool aid if you let your impatience with the protests ignore the potential of unaccountable militarized actions by obscurely identified federal troops against American people, some of whom are misbehaving.
exactly what is it about the trump presidency that leads you to believe he'll use this militarized power judiciously instead of using it to create photo-ops and more "enemies of the state" re-election propaganda?
The full force of the United States military for vandalism and graffiti?
IMO rehearsal for November.
yeah...the legal justification for firing non-lethal munition capable of fracturing skulls is graffiti. The legal justification for snatching people off the street and taking them away in unmarked cars is graffiti
and too many people, impatient enough with incessant protests to ignore the ramifications, will be OK with it
Geez louise...I dont like anything about the Trump Presidency and my feelings that I expressed would be there regardless of whom the big chief is. Ive always supported the Peaceful Protest in fact participated in one in my community and there were no vagrant anarchist hanging around to destroy property. Even you said you were tired of the lawlessness, well, so am I. Their actions are not productive at this point imo, why don't they March during the day endorsing Joe and other issues that need attention.
Yeah, the guy that got hit in the head shouldn't have and I dont agree with THE FULL FORCE OF THE US MILITARY coming down of PDX.
Im not entitled to opinion as you are? Temperamental?
why do people, in the middle of debate, pull out the "I-have-an-opinion-too-card"...it make no sense to me. This forum is opinions-r-us
I made a post...you disagreed with my post...I disagreed with your post. Discussion. Why was I being "temperamental" with my post and you weren't with yours? You explained why you disagreed with me. I explained why I disagreed with you.
by the way, I never said anything about the full force of the military. that was somebody else. Don't conflate
trump is getting to 'back-door' the Insurrection Act because he's been able to strip any oversight authority from the other branches of government; and that's because the R's, and far too many American people, have trashed the Constitution with complicit silence. Yeah, I might be a little temperamental about that
edit: I will say HJ if you somehow took the tone my earlier response to you as an insult, I apologize. I didn't mean it as such
xactly what is it about the trump presidency that leads you to believe he'll use this militarized power judiciously. My commnet had nothing to do with my belief that Trump would use his military judiciously, it was about people destroy property and being lawless.
ou may as well chug the kool aid if you let your impatience - Im not an impatient just fellow just one that happens to be pissed off at some of the things Im seeing.
A bit of cherry picking of the earliest issues listed in the DHS memo there rather than the more serious events later:
Violent anarchists attempted to cause vision damage to personnel with lasers. Five arrests were made for assaulting law enforcement.
Violent anarchists held a “Night of Rage,” in which a 400-500-person protest devolved into riots, assaulting law enforcement officers and federal property.
Approximately 200 violent anarchists began pursuing law enforcement officers to disrupt enforcement actions, assaulting them with rocks and bottles.
Around 150 violent anarchists in front of the Justice Center began attacking personnel with lasers and peppered the area with fireworks.
Three violent anarchists were arrested for attacking law enforcement.
Approximately 200 violent anarchists attacked DHS law enforcement officers while apprehending a subject who was wanted for property damage.
One arrest was made after three law enforcement officers were injured.
Law enforcement officers’ personal information was publicly exposed, including FPS, ICE, and CBP personnel.
Violent anarchists continued to attack officers with lasers.
Violent anarchists attacked DHS law enforcement officers while apprehending a subject who was wanted for property damage.
A violent anarchist graffitied the Hatfield courthouse.
An unidentified subject fired several shots from a gun into the air from the rear seat of a passing white SUV.
Crowds of approximately 300 violent anarchists vandalized federal property and cameras with spray paint, blocked roadways, and assaulted law enforcement officers.
Three were arrested for Assault on a Federal Officer.
Violent anarchists attempted to ambush Portland Police Department PD during their shift change, but a DHS team was deployed and able to prevent any attacks.
DHS law enforcement officers supported local police to help a violent anarchist who overdosed.
Four violent anarchists were arrested, including one who attempted to assault an officer with a hammer.
Violent anarchists sieged the barricade of the courthouse and tried to damage it with a large hammer.
A law enforcement officer was assaulted with blows from a hammer. Violent anarchists fought officers while they were arresting those responsible.
Six violent anarchists were detained and cited.
A mob of 300 refused to comply with directions not to trespass on federal property.
Another mob of 200 individuals armed with sledgehammers, tasers and/or stun guns, gathered in Chapman Park across from the Hatfield Courthouse.
Violent anarchists launched fireworks, threw fecal matter and large objects, and pointed lasers at federal law enforcement officers.
Violent anarchists deployed a plywood blockade while graffitiing the Edith Green-Wenell Wyatt Federal Building, before firing wrist rockets at the facility.
When an arrest team was deployed to apprehend a rioter who encroached on a police barrier and refused to leave, they were assaulted by violent anarchists.
A rioter trespassed on the steps of the Hatfield Courthouse and was confronted by federal law enforcement Officers, then swallowed a large amount of narcotics. Law enforcement called medical services after the individual started to convulse.
Despite more orders to stay off of federal property and to cease unlawful activity, FPS was forced to push back violent anarchists. The Portland Police Bureau declared the mob an unlawful assembly.
Violent anarchists released personal information of federal law enforcement officers to the public, publishing names of those in Portland.
Violent anarchists continued to assault law enforcement officers with lasers, slingshots and fireworks. Others were armed with sledge hammers, tasers, and stun guns, and dragged flaming debris into the scene.
Violent anarchists set a container of liquid on fire at the Terry Schrunk Plaza.
Violent anarchists jumped a fence and attempted to breach the Edith Green Federal Building.
Violent anarchists assaulted federal law enforcement officers with cans and other hard objects while they attempted to unblock the entrance of the Edith Green Federal Building.
Violent anarchists doxed members of federal law enforcement.
Violent anarchists attempted to damage the Hatfield Courthouse by throwing objects at it and spray painting it. Numerous fireworks were also lit.
Violent anarchists trespassed on federal property and destroyed a card reader at the Justice Center.
but, I noticed that that longer 'justification' used the term "violent anarchists" 28 different times, which seems a lot more like propaganda than any legal finding. Which makes me wonder how much false, misleading, and exaggerated claims are in that justification
if they are going to "protect federal property", then have the balls to clear the protestors out of the area. The Governor and Mayor are objecting to the fact these LE officers are ranging around, blocks from any federal property, and making "arrests". If the justification allows these guys to range that far and wide, then go ahead and declare martial law in the area and end the protests. But of course, the white house doesn't really want the protests to end, they want to gradually escalate and collect photo-ops
I added an addendum to that post HJ...hope you saw it
I also want to point out what I led with in the original post of this particular discussion: I'm tired of the protests too, and I believe the law of diminishing returns is at work. The effectiveness of the protests is parabolic. For quite a while, the damage and riots and lawlessness around the periphery of the protests was only ancillary to the main thrust of the protests. The message ruled and was persuasive. But at a certain point, the message became ancillary to the spectacles of continued vandalism, graffiti, and lawlessness. Enough already....but that doesn't justify the federal response in my view, even if Tom Wheeler has been a dipshit
I'm not arguing that DHS is right in its handling of things. I don't have anywhere near enough information to have a valid take on that. I sure as heck don't think that the Mayor and City Council are handling things right either. Now it's devolving into yet another pissing match between the Feds and the locals that ultimately accomplishes nothing. Kind of typical for our government these days.
and since I don't live in Portland I haven't paid real close attention to the details. From my limited perspective, if I was a Portland resident, I think I'd be pissed off at Wheeler right now
well said. Peace!
The protests are the voice of citizens asking for change, and if the government fails to hear that voice and implement the change that is asked for, it is no longer a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.
No, they (the nightly ones in downtown portland) are loser anarchists and street kids that just want to break shit, assault people and set things on fire.
Separate names with a comma.