hahaha this thread will show all the haters hahaha anyway kobe is a great player and he will make all you haters out there that he'll be in the top 20 or even top 10 all time... he'll accomplish a lot more before his career ends
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting er03029:</div><div class="quote_post">I clearly remember last year the lakers had a 34-38 season missing the playoffs for the first time since what like 20 years ago?...ALL WITHOUT SHAQ! How can you say Kobe is the greatest player in the history of the nba? How can you put Kobe over MJ? There will never be anyone as dominant as Michael Jordan. Kobe and everyone else will always be 2nd place. But I do like kobe's huraches, and his kb8's. But yeah that's a little off topic. I don't know where i'm going with this. haha.</div> dude for the past 4 years kobe only had the whole of last summer to shape up... duh... the previous ones he was injured or dealing with his "so called rape case" which was dropped duh for what --> fo' money!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Johnnybrasco:</div><div class="quote_post">He doesn't defenatly but, You still cant say Kobe has led a team to a championship. he played very important roles on championship teams, but he still has yet to lead a team there himself.</div> Nobody has led a team to championship by themselves. Do ur homework, without Pippen, Jordan has 0 rings. Does that take away from his legacy? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Iverson is better than Kobe.</div> Did you wanna give me any reasoning behind this comment or are you just a Iverson fan? The Sixers suck, and Iverson can't do anything Kobe can do.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe23:</div><div class="quote_post">hahaha this thread will show all the haters hahaha anyway kobe is a great player and he will make all you haters out there that he'll be in the top 20 or even top 10 all time... he'll accomplish a lot more before his career ends</div> okay, what does him accomplishing more in the future have to do with where he's ranked right now?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Nobody has led a team to championship by themselves. Do ur homework, without Pippen, Jordan has 0 rings. Does that take away from his legacy? Did you wanna give me any reasoning behind this comment or are you just a Iverson fan? The Sixers suck, and Iverson can't do anything Kobe can do.</div> I never said by themselves, on every team there's a guy who wears a C he's the captian, the leader of the team. Shaq was that leader when the laker won their last 3 championships. Kobe is the leader of the lakers now, lets see if he can lead them to another championship. If he does then his place in NBA history will defenitly rise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Iverson is better than Kobe.</div> And why is that?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Johnnybrasco:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said by themselves, on every team there's a guy who wears a C he's the captian, the leader of the team. Shaq was that leader when the laker won their last 3 championships. Kobe is the leader of the lakers now, lets see if he can lead them to another championship. If he does then his place in NBA history will defenitly rise.</div> And if he doesn't?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Fiyah:</div><div class="quote_post">And if he doesn't?</div> How am i supposed to know? which is why this thread is stupid, kobe still has so many more years left why are we judging his place in history now?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Johnnybrasco:</div><div class="quote_post">How am i supposed to know? which is why this thread is stupid, kobe still has so many more eyars left why are we judginh his plac ein hsitory now?</div> Because he does not need to lead the Lakers, or any other team, to a championship to cement his place in history. He already has a career better than many of the players in the top 50 (many of them without championship rings).
i think you have to put Scottie Pippen ahead of Kobe at the moment. He's accomplished more, posted solid numbers, and was a far better defender than Kobe is. Kobe's great...but i cant put him in my top 20....possibly not top 30. top 40 though for sure...which isnt bad for his age at all.
Kobe is definatly in the top 15 and ill tell u why He did score 81 points(incredible) but if he ever wants to get another ring then the lakers need a big man. A big man ia not just dominent around the paint but he is energy of the team he is the one that needs to alteast have a type of mental power to make the whole team. Now with that said Kobe can play Jordan 1-1 and have a good chance to beat him but KObe is not always the best defender if he wants to be the greatest or try to get better 1) get better in D average at least 3 or more steals 2)This is for the Lakers team trade players for a dominent big man 3) Kobe does need to pass more even though he doesnt have many ppl to pass to but thats his responsibily as the team leader to atleast make the players better 4) every good dunker can always be a good blocker ex. Dwade, Lebron, Josh Smith (is heating up) 5) need another allstar in the team every team that was successful had two allstars or more 6) he also is young give him some time he does need experiance and wisdom of the game with this all said Kobe would in my opinion be the best player ever in NBA history!
The argument that always frustrates me is 'Kobe hasn't won championships....without Shaq.' There are so many things wrong with that argument, its just ridiculous... 1) Does Kobe's rings not count at all since he has Shaq with him? I could swear that they give out rings to all the players on the team, not just Shaq. 2) Who wins championships without teammates? 3) Kobe has had, what, one and a half years without Shaq? 4) 2001 playoff numbers, Kobe Bryant: 29.7ppg, 7.3rbs, 6.1 ast ... surely he deserves some credit for the rings... nevertheless, it's hard to rank overall players, but i'd say he's just inside the top 10 on my list....2nd best SG all-time that i've seen... For those who said he's outside of their top 25, I'm curious to see which 25 guys u can have above him ....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting notMuchgame:</div><div class="quote_post"> For those who said he's outside of their top 25, I'm curious to see which 25 guys u can have above him ....</div> MJ Shaq Wilt Chamberlain Bill Russell Dr. J Magic Johnson Larry Bird Tim Duncan Kareem Abdul Jabbar Oscar Robertson Petit Jerry West Elgin Baylor Karl Malone Moses Malone Bob Cousy Hakeem Olajuwon Charles Barkly David Robinson Scottie Pippen Allen Iverson Isiah Thomas John Stockton Just some names I came up with, you could probably make an argument that Kobe is better than some of the guys on the bottom on the list, but I really don't think so.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">i think you have to put Scottie Pippen ahead of Kobe at the moment. He's accomplished more, posted solid numbers, and was a far better defender than Kobe is. <font color="black">Kobe's great...but i cant put him in my top 20....possibly not top 30. top 40 though for sure...which isnt bad for his age at all</font>.</div> This is all the thread was meant to discuss in the first place. And even you think that Kobe is at least top 40 and you are willing to possibly drop him in the top 30. So now... what the hell were we arguing about in the first place?!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Diesel:</div><div class="quote_post"><font color=""Red"">MJ</font> <font color=""Red"">Shaq</font> <font color=""Red"">Wilt Chamberlain Bill Russell</font> Dr. J <font color=""Red"">Magic Johnson Larry Bird Tim Duncan Kareem Abdul Jabbar</font> <font color=""Red"">Oscar Robertson</font> Petit <font color=""Red"">Jerry West Elgin Baylor</font> Karl Malone Moses Malone Bob Cousy <font color=""Red"">Hakeem Olajuwon</font> Charles Barkly <font color=""Red"">David Robinson</font> Scottie Pippen Allen Iverson Isiah Thomas <font color=""Red"">John Stockton</font> Just some names I came up with, you could probably make an argument that Kobe is better than some of the guys on the bottom on the list, but I really don't think so.</div> Dr J? Dr J. was a revolutionary player, a man ahead of his time.....but dont mistake that for being a great player. Erving was terribly one-dimensional and I think I could name over 10 guys in the league right NOW that are better than Erving. Oscar Robertson, one of the most underrated players of all-time...put up monster numbers...but so has Kobe (now before you throw around number, it's obviously difficult to compare stats from different eras so keep that in mind)....if Kobe gets slack for not winning a title without Shaq, shouldnt Oscar get slack for not winning a title until he was a role player with Kareem? I'm on the fence about this ... it can go either way Bob Cousy? This might be considered blasphemous but he's regarded by many (including myself) as one of the most overrated players of all-time. His numbers weren't great (for any era) and he was turnover prone. And again, if Kobe gets slack for not winning without Shaq, Cousy should get the same if not more. When Cousy retired, the Celtics didn't miss a beat... Charles Barkley? Great offensive player ... greater offense than Kobe? I dont think so.... Great defender? Nope....Good defender? nope .... average defender? nope .... Great player, but not at Kobe's level ... AI? nah ..... dont want to start a kobe vs AI debate so I'll just say I think Kobe is better... Pettit, I honestly can't tell u much about him so I'll just leave it at that.. Moses Malone? If longevity is a big factor, then I would concede. However, its not in my book so Kobe ranks above him IMO.. Karl Malone? great player, a bit overrated IMO, not better than Kobe .. Scottie Pippen? Great all around player, different type of player than Kobe....not sure he's better than kobe... i know, i'm getting lazier and my arguments are getting weaker but bare with me, lol... red is who i'd rank over Kobe.... Note: I dont mean to come across as putting down past greats...I realize it's taboo to put down past greats but i call them like i see them
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Dr J? Dr J. was a revolutionary player, a man ahead of his time.....but dont mistake that for being a great player. Erving was terribly one-dimensional and I think I could name over 10 guys in the league right NOW that are better than Erving. </div> Aww cmon don't be knocking on The Doc. He is a former MVP of the league and is arguably the greatest Sixer in modern basketball. Sure he wasn't a great shooter or a defensive specialist. In his first year with Philly they went to the Finals. I believe he got them there 4 years during his time with the Sixers. It was a hard era of basketball with Birds Celtics, the Showtime Lakers, and even the Trailblazers were a dominant team at the time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Oscar Robertson, one of the most underrated players of all-time...put up monster numbers...but so has Kobe (now before you throw around number, it's obviously difficult to compare stats from different eras so keep that in mind)....if Kobe gets slack for not winning a title without Shaq, shouldnt Oscar get slack for not winning a title until he was a role player with Kareem? I'm on the fence about this ... it can go either way</div> Kobe never really had "monster numbers until this season and the one season after Los Angeles 3 Peat. Oscar Robertson on the other hand averaged a triple double at one point and got over 30 Point averages numerous occasions. For Kobe to be better than the Big O he'll have to continue his play for a few more seasons. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bob Cousy? This might be considered blasphemous but he's regarded by many (including myself) as one of the most overrated players of all-time. His numbers weren't great (for any era) and he was turnover prone. And again, if Kobe gets slack for not winning without Shaq, Cousy should get the same if not more. When Cousy retired, the Celtics didn't miss a beat...</div> Cousy was being the floor leader for such a dominant dynasty is amazing all in its own. He is arguably the greatest little man to ever play the game. He has an MVP also. If they started giving out MVPs before 1956 then he would easily have another one. He was an amzzing playmaker also and could do magic tricks with the ball. KObe does have a good chance to past him though. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Charles Barkley? Great offensive player ... greater offense than Kobe? I dont think so.... Great defender? Nope....Good defender? nope .... average defender? nope .... Great player, but not at Kobe's level ... </div> I'd take Barklys overall career offense ovver KObes overall career offense. Kobe this year is doing better than anyone of Barklys seasons statistically. Kobes defense is overrated as well. Now I'm not saying hes bad at all on the defensive end, but his safety blanket behind him of Shaq was what gave him the rep. His defense has really slipped in recent years. In case you havn't noticed almost all of the great perimeter defenders have a dominant big man backing them up. Wades defense never got recognized until Shaq and Zo came the following year. Bowen has Duncan. This is a reason why I really resepct Artest's game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">AI? nah ..... dont want to start a kobe vs AI debate so I'll just say I think Kobe is better...</div> AI has 4 scoring titles an MVP, and a coulple of ASG MVPs to go with that. He also led a miracle Sixers team to the Finals. I don't want to start the KObe vs AI debate either becuase I know I'll be babbling on about Kobe having Shaq and I don't want that to happen. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Pettit, I honestly can't tell u much about him so I'll just leave it at that..</div> My knowledge on Petit isn';t too great either, but I hear many call him the best power forward at all time and a dominate offensive bigman that was intimidating. He was the leagues first superstar. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Moses Malone? If longevity is a big factor, then I would concede. However, its not in my book so Kobe ranks above him IMO..</div> IMO Moses Malone is one of the most underrated legends of all time. He had Dennis Rodmans rebounding with a polished offensive game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Karl Malone? great player, a bit overrated IMO, not better than Kobe ..</div> Amazing offense, great defense, if it wasn't for MJ he would have the title as the King of the 90s right now and he would have a few rings as well. Played until he was 40 and played at a superstar level until he was 39? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Scottie Pippen? Great all around player, different type of player than Kobe....not sure he's better than kobe...</div> IMO the greatest perimeter defender of all time. Not only that but he was an outstanding player on the offensive side as well. Showed he could lead Chicago to over 50 wins without MJ one year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i know, i'm getting lazier and my arguments are getting weaker but bare with me, lol... </div> Haha same here
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting olskoolFunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post">kobe is the greatest player in the history of the nba. wilt, russel, bird, magic, jordan are all somewhat pathetic in comparison. kobe is the main reason the lakers won 3 straight championships. shaq was clearly his second fiddle as evidence by the lakers continueing dominance since he left. did shaq, jordan, bird or magic ever score 81 points in a single game? i think not. end of story</div> If you actually watched the game, you could see that Kobe didn't score the 81 in the flow of the game, and often looked like a hog taking bad shot after bad shot. He never had his team involved in the game.....it looked like a high school basketball game ( a crappy team with a ringer ). Jordan never did score 81, but Kobe never scored 61 in a playoff game......and just cause he scored 81 in a meaningless game dosen't rank him above any of the players you have mentioned. Shaq second fiddle to Kobe? You must be smokin some cheap drugs, cause Kobe is only leading LA to a first round exit this year. He is good for many reasons, but puting him at the top of the list because of an 81 point night against a terrible defensive team is ridiculous.
