By the end of his career KOBE will rank 2nd. Which is only because people will refuse to put him above the great MJ!!!!!!!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Wait wait, before we argue here.. Individual player or team player?? I think Kobe definitely has a chance against Jordan in individual play. But, this is too early for Kobe. Kobe has to show us more than he already has to be ahead of Jordan. If you talk of Team play.. Kobe is definitely not up their. Magic, Jordan have had much more success. Kobe could be up there in the future, but i dont think he could be known as a "team player" ...</div> this wuz exactly wat i wuz gone 2 say until i heard u say it.....i personally thank he is few miles ahead of Jordan indvidually play....on the other hand got everyone involved
Kobe is in the top 30 all time, He is a great player. BUT he has to win AT LEAST 1 Championship as the top player on his team. I think that is possible. The core the Lakers have now is starting to play good together and 2 more things to be a contention for a title. Kobe is a great player, but he is still has some things to prove. On a side note, I am a huge Kobe fan.
the past game was different from the present... the lakers and celtics of old were/could be considered all star teams... invividually kobe is at least in the top 10... THERE IS NO #1
The fact that there's even a thread about this speaks volumes. If Kobe was "s.h.i.t." as many of you say- then why would you bother to even comment? You may not like Kobe, he may threaten your opinion as to what a "great" player is, but it's for that reason that he's so controversial. We amazed by LeBron, impressed by dwayne wade and love Vince's dunks, but who else in the last 25 years (not named MJ) has made your jaw drop in utter disblief that doesn't leave for days? To all of those people bringing up the Big O, Bird, Magic and Hakeem, how many of you actually watched them in their prime on a regular basis? Stat's don't tell the entire story- especially when The man under scrutiny here hasn't even finished compiling all of his.
^ I don't get what your point was with this post? No one says Kobe is garbage, but it's also quite interesting how either very little people know about NBA history, or how little they know about ranking players if Kobe can be ranked in the Top 10 [like some randoms have said] right now at 27 while not winning any MVP's, having a bounty of All-NBA 1st teams, Defensive teams, longetivity in Top performace etc etc. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">To all of those people bringing up the Big O, Bird, Magic and Hakeem, how many of you actually watched them in their prime on a regular basis? Stat's don't tell the entire story- especially when The man under scrutiny here hasn't even finished compiling all of his.</div> I don't know what you mean by this, but for those guys, outside of Oscar who I haven't watched, but have read about, their stats underatte what they could do on the floor even. You also answered your own question, Kobe's career is not done, so people can't put him in the Top 10 or Top 20. Career wise he's not even better than Iverson yet because Iverson does have an MVP on him, and Iverson is not in the top 10 at all. It's like trying to rank Lebron or Wade the same way, what have they done? If they get injured this year and end there career, they won't even make Top 50, cause it's too short.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">^ I don't get what your point was with this post? No one says Kobe is garbage, but it's also quite interesting how either very little people know about NBA history, or how little they know about ranking players if Kobe can be ranked in the Top 10 [like some randoms have said] right now at 27 while not winning any MVP's, having a bounty of All-NBA 1st teams, Defensive teams, longetivity in Top performace etc etc. I don't know what you mean by this, but for those guys, outside of Oscar who I haven't watched, but have read about, their stats underatte what they could do on the floor even. You also answered your own question, Kobe's career is not done, so people can't put him in the Top 10 or Top 20. Career wise he's not even better than Iverson yet because Iverson does have an MVP on him, and Iverson is not in the top 10 at all. It's like trying to rank Lebron or Wade the same way, what have they done? If they get injured this year and end there career, they won't even make Top 50, cause it's too short.</div> He has 3 rings, nuff said. You can say "well Kobe had Shaq", but Magic had Kareem. Kareem was the bread N butter on that Lakers squad. Did Magic have to win a ring without Kareem to be considered one of the greatest, um no. So don't hold Kobe to that standard. He's already great. He's the most physically gifted shooting guard EVER, and the second greatest overrall to Jordan.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">He has 3 rings, nuff said. You can say "well Kobe had Shaq", but Magic had Kareem. Kareem was the bread N butter on that Lakers squad. Did Magic have to win a ring without Kareem to be considered one of the greatest, um no. So don't hold Kobe to that standard. He's already great. He's the most physically gifted shooting guard EVER, and the second greatest overrall to Jordan.</div> That's not really true it started out kareem but it quickly turned to magic, kareem was past his prime during the lakers championship run look at the stats. Shaq was in his prime with the lakers though.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">He has 3 rings, nuff said. You can say "well Kobe had Shaq", but Magic had Kareem. Kareem was the bread N butter on that Lakers squad. Did Magic have to win a ring without Kareem to be considered one of the greatest, um no. So don't hold Kobe to that standard. He's already great. He's the most physically gifted shooting guard EVER, and the second greatest overrall to Jordan.</div> Where did I mention rings or him winning rings without Shaq? Why do I need to counter against an argument about something I didn't say, the end.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Where did I mention rings or him winning rings without Shaq? Why do I need to counter against an argument about something I didn't say, the end.</div> U mentioned Kobe not having any MVP's etc.........i was sayin that it doesn't matter when everybody knows he's clearly the best player in the league and happens to have 3rings. Please don't mention Iverson in the same breath as Kobe again.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah you can claim how AI has never won a title or never been as successful as Kobe, but these past 2 seasons has proven how Kobe is unable to be successful without Shaq. If Kobe never had Shaq, I highly doubt L.A would ever have won a title. While look at how Shaq has done in Miami, one game from the finals last year, and definatley playoff bound again this season</div> Give Kobe Chris Webber and LA is a lock for the WCF. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Forget Kobe, why arnt we talking about Allen Iverson? Now while I know stats dont amount to everything, A.I has Kobe beat on every single career stat category totals and averages </div> At first you say "I know Stat's don't amount to everything" (or anything in Iversons case), then you go on to list off stats....doesn't sound like you "understand" at all.
Pound for pound he is arguably the most gifted player ever. But he will never surpass Michael Jordan's combination of physical gifts, basketball intellect and domination of his team, opposing teams and the World in general. While (Bryant is) more gifted physically than Larry Bird, Bird overshadowed even Red Auerbach and became as synonomous with the Celtic mystique, or moreso, than Red, Havelicek and Bill Russell. Bird had the winning edge, and magical things seemed to occur when he was playing. Sure he had McHale, a player opposing teams couldn't guard, but Larry could have taken almost any team and taken them to the top with his fierce competitiveness and sure hands. Bryant will never be remembered as the best player for the Lakers. Magic will always have that honor. Jabbar was a cornerstone to Laker success in the 1980s, but he was also Lew Alcinder of the Milwaukee Bucks for several years (and, you didn't hear it here, but his game was boring.) The only excitement Jabbar ever generated was in a Bruce Lee movie. Bryant would be one of the top knights of the round table if we used an allegory of a basketball kingdom.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">U mentioned Kobe not having any MVP's etc.........i was sayin that it doesn't matter when everybody knows he's clearly the best player in the league and happens to have 3rings. Please don't mention Iverson in the same breath as Kobe again.</div> I think the problem is that many of you don't understand how players careers are ranked. You're not just ranked on your peak, you're ranked also on the years around your peak and how long you sustained your peak. Longetivity is part of how players are ranked. You can't have logetivity when you career is still in it's middle stages. If players were just ranked on peak, then their's some guys that can argue their all-time rankings.
I heard a comment the other day that really put some things in perspective. When Wilt Chamberlain played the NBA change the rules to make it harder for him to be successful. Here's one of Wilt's craziest statlines ever. He's the only player in the NBA to have the Double Triple-Double (more than 20 in 3 different categories) Against the Pistons in 1968 he had 22 points / 25 rebounds / 21 assists in one game. The NBA today, has made rule changes to make it easer for the superstar players to succeed. Right now it's not fair to put Kobe on the list because his career might only be halfway done. It's possible he plays another 10 seasons in the league with his ability to score, and his commitment to staying in shape. Every accomplishment is just another highlight to his ongoing resume as an NBA player. Next year I think he will go after the 3000+ points in a season mark and try to keep his FG% at 50%.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Magic Kareem Jordan Wilt Russell are better then Kobe Thats about it </div> Are you kidding me? Kobe hasn't really that much in his career that you can consider players like Bird, Oscar, Hakeem Olajuwan, David Robinson, Tim Duncan (even though he's still playing), Karl Malone, John Stockton, Reggie Miller, to name a few, below him. I do believe he'll be rememberd as one of the greatest players when he retires, which could still be 10 years down the road (when he's 37) but for now, enjoy the (rise to) peaking that Kobe is on and comment on his legacy afterwards.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you kidding me? Kobe hasn't really that much in his career that you can consider players like Bird, Oscar, Hakeem Olajuwan, David Robinson, Tim Duncan (even though he's still playing), Karl Malone, John Stockton, Reggie Miller, to name a few, below him.</div> I'd rank Robinson (short prime; was athletically gifted to the point of laziness in developing pure basketball skills which he desperately needed in the offensive post; abused by players like Malone and Olajuwon during his three best years in the playoffs) and Miller (great, great shooter, but not great at much of anything else) below Kobe right now. I'll fully give you the others, as they are all true legends by most any objective standard. At the same time, Kobe is a rather amazing player in my estimation. He's in or near my personal top 30 already. Which, other than Duncan, is not something true of anybody else from his generation. I find some of his choices highly problematic off and on the court (and no, I'm not implying a thing about what happened or didn't happen in Colorado), but he's also the most gifted and fascinating figure in the league by a wide margin.
Let's put this all in perspective.........These are some Hall of Fame players (and future Hall of Fame players) that Kobe right now is better than. Clyde Drexler Reggie Miller Allen Iverson Scottie Pippen Joe Dumars James Worthy John Stockton George Gervin Bob Cousy Jerry West These are some of the greatest to play the game, and Kobe could've easily dropped 81 on any of them.
I'm a Kobe hater, but I'll try to find as much players as possible unbiased, who are better than him. Jordan,Wilt,Kareem,Bill Russell,Oscar,Jerry West,Pistol,Magic,Bird,Julius Erving,Moses Malone,Shaq,Karl Malone,Hakeem Olajuwan,John Stockton,Bob Cousy,Hondo,Scottie Pippen,Duncan,Charles Barkley. He's already a top 30 player, but not top 20. Yet.
