Where does Webster fit?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Natebishop3, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

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    I couldn't disagree more. He's going to start off mediocre, he'll see his minutes cut and he'll go into a deep state of despondency mixed with ennui that even his shrink can't fix. By December he's getting caught in airport security with both a handgun and a half a pound of weed, having sloppy seconds sex with one of Zach Randolph's dogs, and throwing used bubble gum at a group of rednecks during a kid's coat drive because he thinks they are going to lynch him. Why? It's the Blazers, and we've got years of crazy to catch up on.
     
  2. BTOWN_HUSTLA

    BTOWN_HUSTLA NOW BUZZ KILLINGTON

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    yes, had nothing to do with an emerging Brandon Roy, LMA and the presence of Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez.

    :NOTMARIS: it was all nic Batum and his 5ppg!
     
  3. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Win-score is calculated based on the players individual production and the delta it has from the league average for the position. Since Roy's, LMAs or Oden's production does not factor into this - this argument is lacking.

    Sure, you could argue that having these guys on the team made his job easier - but on the other hand - as shown by usage% and FGA - it also made it harder for him to pad his stats - so generally speaking - I do not really think there is any real meat to this argument.

    Again - you are fixated on the raw numbers instead of looking at a composite that considers usage, minutes and efficiency.
     
  4. BTOWN_HUSTLA

    BTOWN_HUSTLA NOW BUZZ KILLINGTON

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    lame. this is all voodoo stats to me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
  5. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    OK. Same as imaginary cap space, I suppose. :devilwink:
     
  6. hasoos

    hasoos Well-Known Member

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    Well how is it not a stretch of the truth if he didnt even play? How can he not fit if he isn't even on the court? That is total bullshit.
     
  7. adrenalize74

    adrenalize74 I cant hear you over the sound of how awesome I am

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    The only answer to this is going to be if Webster is 100% healthy and ready to go by training camp. I am still convinced that we have barely scratched the surface of the player Martell can be. He has really been hampered with low self confidence and lack of dicipline. He really turned a BIG corner last year coming into the season but, unfortunatly, we never got to see it. So, hopefully we will this year and have the SF spot locked up for years to come.

    I am looking forward to seeing what Martell can do almost as much as I am looking forward to seeing Odens improvement. This could be an amazingly exciting year.
     
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  8. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    That describes Webster well, if you change "great at times" to "great in one quarter of one game."

    Webster played his healthy seasons on much worse teams than last year's Blazers, so had the ball in his hands more (he would not have gotten as many possessions to use on last year's team, with Roy blowing up, Aldridge improving greatly as the season went on, Rudy playing well, etc). Batum actually had a higher scoring efficiency, Assist Rate (percentage of team's points he assisted on) and Rebound Rate (percentage of possible rebounds that he got).

    When you also factor in that Batum is a much better defender, it's hard to find anything that Webster does better.
     
  9. BTOWN_HUSTLA

    BTOWN_HUSTLA NOW BUZZ KILLINGTON

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    yeah, well, you can pull any random stat out of your ass and ignore others just to prove your point. You can also say that since Batum had more talent around him, his play improved and was better since he wasn't a focus defensively.

    I'm not bagging on Batum...but he's still 19 or 20 years old and we haven't seen what Webster can bring....I personally think that Batum was more of a throw-in of a starting SF last year than anything and he played good for the situation. However, I think that Martell will be the starter...his main problem was mental toughness and hopefully he's gotten that with sitting a year and with age.
     
  10. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    This is always my biggest problem with what people say about Webster. We saw 3 years of what Webster could bring. Why do you feel we haven't seen what he can bring?
     
  11. BTOWN_HUSTLA

    BTOWN_HUSTLA NOW BUZZ KILLINGTON

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    straight to high school guys take a while sometimes. he's improved steadily every season.
     
  12. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    There's nothing random about using more sophisticated statistics that account for factors like how many possessions a player used, how many rebounds were available, etc. Also, I have no idea why you say "just to prove my point," since I almost exclusively use advanced numbers like PER, Assist Rate, Rebound Rate, etc. It's not like I'm using them here because they favour Batum.

    You can say that, but since Webster basically only shot open shots, I don't find it convincing. He was never the "focus" of the defense. Randolph was and then Roy. Webster generally stood in one place and shot when open and was passed the ball. He wasn't creating against defensive focus.

    We've seen what Webster brought his first three seasons and it was very little. It's certainly possible that he'll improve, since he's still young, but his lack of improvement over his first three seasons doesn't inspire confidence that he's got a lot more ahead of him. And Batum will also improve...he's even younger, much less experienced and doesn't have an established stagnant development path, so I think Batum is likely to improve more next season than Webster will over his last healthy season.

    However you label it, he played better than Webster has. There was no major difference between them offensively, but Batum was a far better defender.
     
  13. BTOWN_HUSTLA

    BTOWN_HUSTLA NOW BUZZ KILLINGTON

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    Martell had double the ppg.
     
  14. BTOWN_HUSTLA

    BTOWN_HUSTLA NOW BUZZ KILLINGTON

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  15. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    On about double the shots. Batum had the superior scoring efficiency (points per shot attempt, essentially).
     
  16. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    One thing the stats don't take into account is how Batum would, on occasion, get that "deer in the headlight" look on his face. He would also, on occasion, get really aggressive and attack the rim (hi there Pau Gasol!). We saw this in the playoffs when Houston basically took Batum out of the equation. I would like to see Batum gain a bit more confidence this season, and attack the rim more often.

    I feel like we were finally seeing Webster attack the rim when he was hurt. I had been wanting to see a more aggressive Martell for years, and it appeared like what was what we were finally getting. If Web can be aggressive, move without the ball, and attack the rim, I think he can be a very good player. When he stands around and jacks up threes, he is one dimensional and ineffective. When he runs off screens and looks for the open shot, he can be one of the deadliest shooters in the NBA. Just my opinion (and hope).
     
  17. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Sure. I will help.

    The numbers say that if Webster was on the floor for 48 minutes a game, the Blazers, in 2007, would be -1.9 points to their opponents. The numbers also say that if Batum was on the floor for 48 minutes a game, the Blazers, in 2008, would be a +6.1 points to their opponents.

    It also tells us that the Blazers won 47.3% of the time Webster was on the floor, but won 50% of the time when Batum was on the floor.

    We also see that Webster is mostly used as a jump shooter - more than 4 out of every 5 shots he took were a distance jump shot - Batum is more versatile as only 2 out of every 3 shots he takes were jump shots.

    We also see that Batum is a better passer than Webster, same with rebounds. He is a lot better at blocking.

    The Hands rating shows that Webster does not really work well as a ball handling player. Batum was better - and I suspect that he will get much better as time goes on - he just seems like he can move laterally with the ball.

    We do not have the following information for Webster - since they only started recording it (or publishing it) for the last year - but if you look at the 5 unit win rate - it seems that when Batum is asked to take a bigger load on offense - the team wins more. This leads me to suspect that Batum was actually under-utilized last year on offense. Another thing we see is that Batum was actually really succesful as SF - not so much at PF and not really as a SG. Surprisingly, where he was really successful defensively - was more against small-guards and power forwards - and not so much against small-forwards.
     
  18. RedHotRollin

    RedHotRollin Member

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    If Webster stays healthy, he isn't going to have a problem fitting in. Something inside of me really thinks and believes he is ready to take off. If he stays healthy and feels good. I expect him to start at three with Batum backing him up. Outlaw is slated in by the coaching staff at the four position. So he will get his minutes there. I still think, I would take that asset and move it for something more bulkier, physical and meaner.

    But as long as Webs is healthy. He won't have any problems fitting in.
     
  19. alex42083

    alex42083 Thanks Brandon

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    I'd like to see Martell succeed and hope he succeeds. He has the best pure stroke from the outside, and he's got some sneaky athleticism to his game ala B-Roy. But his injury definitely worries me if he's not 100 percent by training camp.
     
  20. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    It's funny how some players attract a cult following. Look at how some fans are all pumped up about Cunningham, just because he was adequate in summer league. Even if Webster is 100% healthy and Batum still clearly outplays him, some fans will make excuses for the guy.

    Personally, I suspect it is a form of defense mechanism.....the desperate desire to believe that Nash wasn't such a complete clown as to prefer this guy to Paul and Williams!
     

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