<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sabretooth:</div><div class="quote_post">He said he'd take KG over Wade.</div> Lol Sabretooth exactly. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Just to prove a point. Rasheed Wallace and Kevin Garnett wouldn't have even been mentioned together on their caliber of play.........until Sheed got a ring. Now, even if people wouldn't choose to place him above KG, his name gets entered into the conversation just by that fact. I actually used it as a way to kick KG and C Webb in their backsides. Stating "Rasheed-Freakin'-Wallace got a ring, come on now. You gotta compete". The NBA world shows that chemistry and talent are what really makes teams successful (plus a general who knows when to step on the throat of the opposition when it counts). The only person I've seen, just dominate, is Jordan. Not saying he had alot of bench warmers, but when you win 3 rings, take a leave of absence, decide it's time to take 3 more. What can you say. I bet there were alllloooottt of "tight sphincters" (ala C. Barkley) in the locker room because Jordan demanded nothing less. Do you think can focus that intensity and drive he has now in the same way? </div> No I don't see your point about Sheed. He got a ring so now he is up there with KG? Not really. If KG were on those Pistons teams, the Pistons would be in their third championship by now. Look at how close they were the last two years without KG. Sheed averaged 13 and 8 in the playoffs the year they won, KG could improve upon all those aspects. To me, having Sheed get a ring means that a lot of people that complain about "cancers in the locker room"/"I have a ring, I'm better" aren't as right as they think they are.
i dont want to turn this into a wade vs kg thread, because that is really stupid. Wade has played three years, KG has played 11 i believe. it isnt even a contest. btw, nice to see you here sabertooth, i saw some of your older post, and hope you stay active
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">No I don't see your point about Sheed. He got a ring so now he is up there with KG? </div> You missing my point. You know how every player who is great but hasn't won a ring is always regarded as "this player is great, but....". Imagine if Sheed would have stayed w the Blazers and continued to fail like the Blazers have. Sheed would've just been a "serviceable" 4 with anger issues that won't amount to anything. He would have been a good example to up-and-comers that this kind of behavior will not lead to success. But now they can counter with "I can win a Championship and still be an A-hole". So Sheed gets the reverse argument of "serviceable 4 with anger issues, but he got a ring". So as I stated before, the caliber of their play is not similar, but you don't want to have that "BUT" to your legacy. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">btw, nice to see you here sabertooth, i saw some of your older post, and hope you stay active </div> Yep. I'm back. I really become disheartened when I see someone doing everything they can and continually getting screwed.....by their own team. Management of a franchise should not look totally inept, and Wolves management has only one other group that's worse and that's the Knicks. The question usually used is do you appreciate KG as a Wolf or KG as a player? And I say both. If he were to leave, I'd cheer him wherever he went. If he played the Wolves, I'd cheer for the Wolves but would have no ill will whatsoever. I appreciate his loyalty and intensity. I love a player that shows emotion and that's KG.
^^Very true, but the fact is even if sheed stayed in portland, he would still never be even close to as good as kg. But, i t saddens me to admit you are right, and for kg's sake, he needs a title, and has earned the chance for one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont want to turn this into a wade vs kg thread, because that is really stupid. Wade has played three years, KG has played 11 i believe. it isnt even a contest. btw, nice to see you here sabertooth, i saw some of your older post, and hope you stay active </div> OMG man, I said KG IS BETTER than Wade. You read too fast or something. Thank you.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">OMG man, I said KG IS BETTER than Wade. You read too fast or something. Thank you.</div> my bad dude, sorry bout that.
lol. As a PF, without thinking too much about it, I'd say KG is a Top 10 PF of all-time quite easily, but I'm not really thinking deeply about who else there is, but he's very likely Top 10. As a player, he's probably in the Top 40-50.
All time I would say he is about Top 50, as a forward probably about top 20. It’s hard to make a fair comparison to players of the past due to all the rule changes that have occurred in the game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Best Kept Secret:</div><div class="quote_post">All time I would say he is about Top 50, as a forward probably about top 20. It?s hard to make a fair comparison to players of the past due to all the rule changes that have occurred in the game.</div> Very true. The world of the NBA has changed so much that you can't possibly compare new stars vs older ones since the game has changed so much. I'm not asking for the "short shorts" again but it's so hard for me to get as excited as I did in the 90's because the league is just so damn sensitive. I can't fathom the Classic's we would have missed if there was always a foul called when a star was defended. Back then, great players made great plays and great teams rose to the occasion. As a defender, there is no way I'd be able to play because I'd get so frusterated with the calls. When we play, <u>WE PLAY</u>. When you get fouled, you got fouled and there was no question. It's kinda like that commercial saying to the superstars "This is what boxing out looks like". Just my opinion on the state of the game.
^^I agree, it is getting annoying were i can be more aggressive and physical in high school than nba players. The rule cahnges, if anythin have just made me a way bigger college hoops fan.
Look at it this way. In the history of the NBA, there's only be a handful of players who've had more than one season with a PER of 26 or greater. Just look at the names on this list: <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/><font color=""Navy"">player# of seasons 26+ PER</font><br/>Shaq11<br/>Jordan10<br/>Chamberlain8<br/>Robinson8<br/>Abdul-Jabbar7<br/>Karl Malone6<br/>Barkley4<br/>Duncan4<br/>Kevin Garnett4<br/>Pettit4<br/>Magic3<br/>Bird3<br/>Robertson3<br/>Baylor3<br/>Mikan3*<br/>Olajuwon2<br/>Kobe2<br/>Nowitkzi2<br/><font size="1">* PER not available first 4 seasons </font><br/></div> PER isn't the end-all, be-all stat (Robinson, a great player, had 8 such seasons, but most wouldn't rank him ahead of Olajuwon). But everyone on that list is pretty much a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. When all is said and done, Garnett is really one of the greatest players ever. At the PF position, he's easily top 5 (Duncan, Malone, Barkley, and Pettit are the only ones that come to mind that you can arguably put ahead of Garnett). Edit: I neglected Nowitzki. He actually has had over 26 PER the last 2 seasons. Impressive.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Look at it this way. In the history of the NBA, there's only be a handful of players who've had more than one season with a PER of 26 or greater. Just look at the names on this list: <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/><font color=""Navy"">player# of seasons 26+ PER</font><br/>Shaq11<br/>Jordan10<br/>Chamberlain8<br/>Robinson8<br/>Abdul-Jabbar7<br/>Karl Malone6<br/>Barkley4<br/>Duncan4<br/>Kevin Garnett4<br/>Pettit4<br/>Magic3<br/>Bird3<br/>Robertson3<br/>Baylor3<br/>Mikan3*<br/>Olajuwon2<br/>Kobe2<br/><br/><font size="1">* PER not available first 4 seasons </font><br/></div> PER isn't the end-all, be-all stat.....</div> I'm sorry but for the life of me I can't figure "PER". I keep thinking Pts-Reb-Ast, but that's obviously not what you're talking about. Can you say and feel that KG will still keep the elite status if he continues to struggle to get to (and in) the post season?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sabretooth:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sorry but for the life of me I can't figure "PER". I keep thinking Pts-Reb-Ast, but that's obviously not what you're talking about.</div> PER estimates how good a player is, per possession. It does this by crediting a player for the "good stats", and penalizing him for the "bad stats". It's similar, in spirit, to the NBA efficiency rating, but the weights on each individual stat (points, assists, offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, turnovers, etc.) are more accurate. Also, some team context is considered (for instance, using the percentage of field goals assisted on the team to estimate the relative value of a made field goal for individual players). Then it divides this by the players minutes, and adjusts for team pace (possessions per minute for the team, on the season), to get at a per-possession rating. After doing all this, you get a value we'll call prePER. Final step is to standardize the PER, setting league average to 15: PER = prePER * ( 15 / league average prePER) The following guide might be useful: <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>*A Year For the Ages:35.0<br/>*Runaway MVP Candidate:30.0<br/>*Strong MVP Candidate: 27.5<br/>*Weak MVP Candidate: 25.0<br/>*Bona fide All-Star: 22.5<br/>*Borderline All-Star:20.0<br/>*Solid 2nd option: 18.0<br/>*3rd Banana: 16.5<br/>*Pretty good player: 15.0<br/>*In the rotation:13.0<br/>*Scrounging for minutes: 11.0<br/>*Definitely renting:9.0<br/>*On next plane to Yakima: 5.0<br/></div> PER does a very good job of capturing the offensive capabilities of players. It's not as good with defense, though. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Can you say and feel that KG will still keep the elite status if he continues to struggle to get to (and in) the post season?</div> If he keeps playing like he's been playing, I say yes. History may not be as kind.
Thanks for that post durvasa. Very informative. (No sarcasm). Very big testment to how well Garnett plays on such a subpar team.
Isnt garnett's per one of the highest ever over a career? I thought that i heard that somewhere, maybe not. Btw, durvasa what was garnett's highest per ever for a season. purehoops, sweet new sig, i really like it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">Isnt garnett's per one of the highest ever over a career? I thought that i heard that somewhere, maybe not. Btw, durvasa what was garnett's highest per ever for a season. purehoops, sweet new sig, i really like it.</div> basketball-reference.com has the answer to all your questions. Career PER leaders Single Season PER leaders Garnett's single season best was 29.4 in 2004. It's the 18th best PER season in NBA history. Only Wilt, Jordan, Robinson, Shaq, McGrady (2003), and Kareem had a better season during theri careers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">Without the ring, top 20, with, top 10. No seven footer has ever been as talented as him. Few players have ever been as versatile form any height. He is truly one of the greats</div> Theres your answer.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">Isnt garnett's per one of the highest ever over a career? I thought that i heard that somewhere, maybe not. Btw, durvasa what was garnett's highest per ever for a season. purehoops, sweet new sig, i really like it.</div> basketball-reference.com has the answer to all your questions. Career PER leaders Single Season PER leaders Garnett's single season best was 29.4 in 2004. It's the 18th best PER season in NBA history. Only Wilt, Jordan, Robinson, Shaq, McGrady (2003), and Kareem had a better season during theri careers.
Between Malone and Garnett, who's greatest? I think it's a no-brainer. Malone. Look at what he did through his career, he got to the finals. KG Hasn't. The NBA's second all time scorer. He has personal stats and team stats. KG, like purehoops said, has only left his mark in the playoffs once. I think Malone is one of the greatest players without a ring, and I absolutely hate him.
obviously malone is better, but kg still has at least 4 great years, a 3-4 more solid years after that. He can easily surpass malone in that amount of time imo, especially if he gets a ring.
