<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">obviously malone is better, but kg still has at least 4 great years, a 3-4 more solid years after that. He can easily surpass malone in that amount of time imo, especially if he gets a ring.</div> I think thats what people are missing. We all are judging Garnett probably in the crossroads of his career. He still has a couple great, on top of his game years in him (sadly wasting away on a below par team), and few years of being a solid contributor on any team afterwards. If he can land himself in a great situation within the next couple years and make something happen, he can really bolster his legacy, and strengthen his case to be moved up the list. As of right now of course Malone ranks about him, as does Charles Barkley, with Duncan probably right above him because of the championship accomplishments. However, he can really leap frog some of these guys if he can put a championship run together on some team. Obviously the key to leap froggin to the top of the list would be to win a championship, however I feel if he got back into the playoffs and did some damage into the later rounds, maybe not winning championships, however doing what he did in his one solid year, it will only do good. As of right now, the last of his best years is being run into the ground because of poor management. Thanks McHale. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">purehoops, sweet new sig, i really like it.</div> Thanks.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting purehoops:</div><div class="quote_post">As of right now, the last of his best years is being run into the ground because of poor management. Thanks McHale.</div> Maybe Kevin McHale wants to make sure that history deems him the better PF.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">obviously malone is better, but kg still has at least 4 great years, a 3-4 more solid years after that. He can <u>easily</u> surpass malone in that amount of time imo, especially if he gets a ring.</div> Easily? Not at all. Possible, yes, but definately not easily. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe Kevin McHale wants to make sure that history deems him the better PF.</div> McHale does have an arguent for him right now though. Better scorer, man defender, shot blocker, definately not the rebounder KG is, not a bad passer, but not on KG's level, and far superior post scorer. He's not as pretty as other guys in the numbers department due to his career average of 31 MPG, but don't be fooled by that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Easily? Not at all. Possible, yes, but definately not easily.</div> i meant easily as in, he can easily get a championship, and imo, that would put him over malone's legacy.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Easily? Not at all. Possible, yes, but definately not easily. McHale does have an arguent for him right now though. Better scorer, man defender, shot blocker, definately not the rebounder KG is, not a bad passer, but not on KG's level, and far superior post scorer. He's not as pretty as other guys in the numbers department due to his career average of 31 MPG, but don't be fooled by that.</div> KG has about twice the number of 1st Team All Defensive years. That issue is close, but I would give the overall defensive edge to KG. KG has a higher PER for his career, and I would say that it will not dip much below 23, compared to McHale's 20.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">Without the ring, top 20, with, top 10. No seven footer has ever been as talented as him. Few players have ever been as versatile form any height. He is truly one of the greats</div> Wilt was better!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">Wilt was better!</div> Alright. Thanks for the well thought out input. Nobody was saying KG was better than Wilt, were they?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">KG has about twice the number of 1st Team All Defensive years. That issue is close, but I would give the overall defensive edge to KG. KG has a higher PER for his career, and I would say that it will not dip much below 23, compared to McHale's 20.</div> Actually it's not closed at all. McHale doesn't have the All-Defensive selections because well, he had more competition, and some other factors. McHale was the best PF defender of the 80's, and trust me, I'm not the only one that thinks so. McHale is considered by some to be the best defensive PF of all time, and by most at least Top 5. Still, McHale had 3 first team selections, and 3 second team selections. He was considered a F/C, but let's just look at the years he didn't make first team (or second) and see who beat him: 83: Moses Malone, Bobby Jones (ranked by some as the best SF defender), and he was also 6'9, Dan Roundfield 84 he didn't make either: Tree Rollin (let's just say close to 5 BPG), Bobby Jones |2nd T| Kareem, Bird, Dan Roundfield 85 he didn't make it again: Mark Eaton (hope everyone knows him, but let's just say 5.6 BPG), Michael Cooper (ranked by many as the best SG defender over Jordan, was a G-F) and Paul Pressey |2nd T| Hakeem Olajuwon, Bobby Jones, Danny Vranes (all he did was defense, this was one of the only years he played more than 25 MPG, so he got recognized) McHale then made first team for 3 straight years, 86-88, and that's no joke beacuse he beat out some real nice guys: 86 - Michael Cooper 87 - Mark Eaton, Paul Pressley, Rodney McCray 88 - Buck Williams, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing 89 and 90 he again made second team, and he was beat by: Mark Eaton, Rodman, and Larry Nance 90: Olajuwon, Rodman, and Buck Williams Also you have to take into account his role on the team which didn't have him playing big minutes, so his numbers weren't as nice as some other guys. If you look at the years he made 1st team 86-88, those three years he had 3 of the 4 highest MPG of his career playing 35.3 MPG, 39.7 MPG, and 37.3 MPG. In 89 he also played 36.9 MPG, he didn't play more than 33.6 MPG in any other season of his career. For all those other years I mentioned where he still managed to make second team 83 - 28.6 MPG, 85 - 33.6 MPG, 90 - 33.2 MPG, all except 88-89, he wasn't playing that many minutes. For big men rebounding is factored into defense. Garnett is a far superior rebounder, that's easily settled. KG is also a "more versatile defender", but at the PF and C spots, McHale was first of all a better man to man defender, and a much better shot blocker. His first 3 years in the league if not for him playing low MPG, he was about a 3 BPG guy, after that again his minutes held the numbers back, but he was basically a 2 BPG guy. For his career he has 1.7 BPG in 31 MPG while KG has 1.7 BPG in 38.3 MPG. So the defense one is quite arguable and far from being as simple as just All-Defensive selections. Yes McHale didn't garner as many, but it's not like he just wasn't making it because he was bad. He wasn't making it because well there was some nice competition in from of him, and also because the amount of minutes he played did not make his numbers look as "sweet" or appealing as some other guys who would be averaging 11+ RPG, 3+ BPG etc, but might not be as good man defenders. About PER, you're very correct, though one of PER's biggest weaknesses is evaluating man to man defense. I'm not saying I'd easily take McHale over KG, but I'm just making the point that it's not as simple as some might think. Also to be truthful McHale is definately the better defender outside of rebounding which is part of defense though not really true defense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually it's not closed at all. McHale doesn't have the All-Defensive selections because well, he had more competition, and some other factors. McHale was the best PF defender of the 80's, and trust me, I'm not the only one that thinks so. McHale is considered by some to be the best defensive PF of all time, and by most at least Top 5. Still, McHale had 3 first team selections, and 3 second team selections. He was considered a F/C, but let's just look at the years he didn't make first team (or second) and see who beat him: 83: Moses Malone, Bobby Jones (ranked by some as the best SF defender), and he was also 6'9, Dan Roundfield 84 he didn't make either: Tree Rollin (let's just say close to 5 BPG), Bobby Jones |2nd T| Kareem, Bird, Dan Roundfield 85 he didn't make it again: Mark Eaton (hope everyone knows him, but let's just say 5.6 BPG), Michael Cooper (ranked by many as the best SG defender over Jordan, was a G-F) and Paul Pressey |2nd T| Hakeem Olajuwon, Bobby Jones, Danny Vranes (all he did was defense, this was one of the only years he played more than 25 MPG, so he got recognized) McHale then made first team for 3 straight years, 86-88, and that's no joke beacuse he beat out some real nice guys: 86 - Michael Cooper 87 - Mark Eaton, Paul Pressley, Rodney McCray 88 - Buck Williams, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing 89 and 90 he again made second team, and he was beat by: Mark Eaton, Rodman, and Larry Nance 90: Olajuwon, Rodman, and Buck Williams Also you have to take into account his role on the team which didn't have him playing big minutes, so his numbers weren't as nice as some other guys. If you look at the years he made 1st team 86-88, those three years he had 3 of the 4 highest MPG of his career playing 35.3 MPG, 39.7 MPG, and 37.3 MPG. In 89 he also played 36.9 MPG, he didn't play more than 33.6 MPG in any other season of his career. For all those other years I mentioned where he still managed to make second team 83 - 28.6 MPG, 85 - 33.6 MPG, 90 - 33.2 MPG, all except 88-89, he wasn't playing that many minutes. For big men rebounding is factored into defense. Garnett is a far superior rebounder, that's easily settled. KG is also a "more versatile defender", but at the PF and C spots, McHale was first of all a better man to man defender, and a much better shot blocker. His first 3 years in the league if not for him playing low MPG, he was about a 3 BPG guy, after that again his minutes held the numbers back, but he was basically a 2 BPG guy. For his career he has 1.7 BPG in 31 MPG while KG has 1.7 BPG in 38.3 MPG. So the defense one is quite arguable and far from being as simple as just All-Defensive selections. Yes McHale didn't garner as many, but it's not like he just wasn't making it because he was bad. He wasn't making it because well there was some nice competition in from of him, and also because the amount of minutes he played did not make his numbers look as "sweet" or appealing as some other guys who would be averaging 11+ RPG, 3+ BPG etc, but might not be as good man defenders. About PER, you're very correct, though one of PER's biggest weaknesses is evaluating man to man defense. I'm not saying I'd easily take McHale over KG, but I'm just making the point that it's not as simple as some might think. Also to be truthful McHale is definately the better defender outside of rebounding which is part of defense though not really true defense.</div> Of course I know that All-Defensive teams are not the end all stat (Christ, they left off Garnett from the All-NBA team this year! Carmelo over KG? LoL ). However, my point was that he is so versatile, is not finished with his career, already has seven awards, that he is up there defensively with some of the greats at the position. Maybe not first, but up there. Then when you look at his offensive dominance, I just cannot pick McHale over him (He came straight out of highschool yet his PER is still 23.8, career-wise). You sure know a lot about defense though, great post. No lie.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">Wilt was better!</div> How and why was Wilt better? How can you even compare them? I think the eras are too different to accurately compare.
