Look attacking christians is what real Christians DON'T do, im going to do the LOGICIAL and stop arguing. Becuase Jesus himself said "love thy neighbour" muslim, chirstian, jew, hindu, or even hinju....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Sep 5 2006, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's different because the original is only in Arabic and if you try to tanslate to other languages it's a really rough translation and you get things wrong. I do not speak Arabic and probably won't read the Koran since I'm not that religous but I know many Muslims and none of them seem to want to cut anyone's heads off or wish for anyone to burn in hell or whatever.</div>i agree with ASUfan most muslims are very peaceful people, there are a few muslims that go to my school and they are just regular people and friendly. I don't think it's fair for people to judge muslims on what the extremists do i mean not all muslims are like bin laden and hamas and those groups.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>And you lost to BigMo and RTD. I wasn't even in that debate. I just posted something at the end.</div><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Also, if I was up to you face to face, I would show you the arabic text. But what would the point be? You don't know arabic. learn it yourself if you care so much. If you don't care, then don't post.</div>You're telling me there's not one single English translation that's correct. Please, even the Bible has good translations from Greek and Hebrew.
Of course there are english translations that are correct. The ones from english-speaking muslims. The Qur'an can't be changed, and those translations are real and peaceful.
So show me a link or something, so I look up the verses that RF1 posted. Or, better yet, tell me what they mean yourself.Especially tell me this:2.191. Kill them whenever you confront them and drive them out from where they drove you out. (For though killing is sinful) wrongful persecution is even worse than killing. Do not fight against them near the Holy Mosque unless they fight against you; but if they fight against you kill them, for that is the reward of such unbelievers.I'm trying not to be a "retard", but give me reasons, please.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dmoney0199 @ Sep 5 2006, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i agree with ASUfan most muslims are very peaceful people, there are a few muslims that go to my school and they are just regular people and friendly. I don't think it's fair for people to judge muslims on what the extremists do i mean not all muslims are like bin laden and hamas and those groups.</div>Dmoney, that is very true, i, have friends that are muslims, i do no hate against them.But i dont like people denying my faith. I hate it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Sep 6 2006, 07:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dmoney, that is very true, i, have friends that are muslims, i do no hate against them.But i dont like people denying my faith. I hate it.</div>No one is.. like I said don't be stupid. I'd think you'd be mad at me more if I said what you claim we do is true. but no, I'm saying those things are not true.And Hang Eleven, I'm never read that in the Qur'an, and I've read the Qur'an many times.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Sep 6 2006, 04:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But i dont like people denying my faith. I hate it.</div>Who is denying your faith?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KCX @ Sep 6 2006, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>christianity</div>Christianity what?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blaze @ Sep 7 2006, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And Hang Eleven, I'm never read that in the Qur'an, and I've read the Qur'an many times.</div>LinkVerse 191, this was posted by our very one Wagas, which was stupid of him (but then again, he was that kind of guy).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hang Eleven @ Sep 6 2006, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So show me a link or something, so I look up the verses that RF1 posted. Or, better yet, tell me what they mean yourself.Especially tell me this:2.191. Kill them whenever you confront them and drive them out from where they drove you out. (For though killing is sinful) wrongful persecution is even worse than killing. Do not fight against them near the Holy Mosque unless they fight against you; but if they fight against you kill them, for that is the reward of such unbelievers.I'm trying not to be a "retard", but give me reasons, please.</div>That verse was revealed concerning the prophet and The Quraish of who he was fighting against. These same people persecuted, murdered, scoffed and ridiculued the prophet and his companions. That verse was revealed to the prophet, instructing him what do.Not everything in the Quran applies today. I'll give you an example, alcohol for a time was allowed. Allah revealed to the prophet that you could drink it but there should be a limit. It was eventually banned. The verse which originally allowed alcohol is now not to be followed. The same thing applies to that verse, that verse is talking about the prophet's fight against the non-believing arabs. These same people plotted many a time to murder the prophet and wipe the religion off the face of the planet.I agree, on the face of it it does seem quite agressive. But there is a thing called context. Only people who have thoroughly understand the grammatical side of the Quran a will truly understand in detail what the verse means.I've noticed also that the majority of people who claim Islam is evil bring such verses up but fail to understand the context and grammar behind the verse I've seen it happen a many a time. I've seen users on this board do it.If you have any queries on islam then it'd be best for you to go ask a scholar who also understands Arabic well. Only they can give you the best answer. Religion is too broad and too complicated to be disected over a message board especially when a foreign language is involved.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Sep 8 2006, 03:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That verse was revealed concerning the prophet and The Quraish of who he was fighting against. These same people persecuted, murdered, scoffed and ridiculued the prophet and his companions. That verse was revealed to the prophet, instructing him what do.Not everything in the Quran applies today. I'll give you an example, alcohol for a time was allowed. Allah revealed to the prophet that you could drink it but there should be a limit. It was eventually banned. The verse which originally allowed alcohol is now not to be followed. The same thing applies to that verse, that verse is talking about the prophet's fight against the non-believing arabs. These same people plotted many a time to murder the prophet and wipe the religion off the face of the planet.I agree, on the face of it it does seem quite agressive. But there is a thing called context. Only people who have thoroughly understand the grammatical side of the Quran a will truly understand in detail what the verse means.I've noticed also that the majority of people who claim Islam is evil bring such verses up but fail to understand the context and grammar behind the verse I've seen it happen a many a time. I've seen users on this board do it.If you have any queries on islam then it'd be best for you to go ask a scholar who also understands Arabic well. Only they can give you the best answer. Religion is too broad and too complicated to be disected over a message board especially when a foreign language is involved.</div>Very well-said Melo. You know your stuff, really well for a non-muslim. I applaud you.
IMO, All the religions are the same thing. We are all trying to get to the same place, just in different paths.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asian @ Sep 8 2006, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>IMO, All the religions are the same thing. We are all trying to get to the same place, just in different paths.</div>Yes, I too believe that there are many paths and religions that eventually will lead you to Jesus Christ!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Sep 8 2006, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That verse was revealed concerning the prophet and The Quraish of who he was fighting against. These same people persecuted, murdered, scoffed and ridiculued the prophet and his companions. That verse was revealed to the prophet, instructing him what do.Not everything in the Quran applies today. I'll give you an example, alcohol for a time was allowed. Allah revealed to the prophet that you could drink it but there should be a limit. It was eventually banned. The verse which originally allowed alcohol is now not to be followed. The same thing applies to that verse, that verse is talking about the prophet's fight against the non-believing arabs. These same people plotted many a time to murder the prophet and wipe the religion off the face of the planet.I agree, on the face of it it does seem quite agressive. But there is a thing called context. Only people who have thoroughly understand the grammatical side of the Quran a will truly understand in detail what the verse means.I've noticed also that the majority of people who claim Islam is evil bring such verses up but fail to understand the context and grammar behind the verse I've seen it happen a many a time. I've seen users on this board do it.If you have any queries on islam then it'd be best for you to go ask a scholar who also understands Arabic well. Only they can give you the best answer. Religion is too broad and too complicated to be disected over a message board especially when a foreign language is involved.</div>BINGO. I've seen it happen many times as well, not only on this board but everywhere. Context is critical to understanding the Quran, and even by just reading that verse I still don't understand how somebody could think it is "evil."<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>2.191. Kill them whenever you confront them and drive them out from where they drove you out. (For though killing is sinful) wrongful persecution is even worse than killing. Do not fight against them near the Holy Mosque unless they fight against you; but if they fight against you kill them, for that is the reward of such unbelievers.</div>You can infer that there is some sort of battle going on, and Allah is saying to kill them and reclaim the territory that they stole in the first place. He also states that the wrongful persecution the Muslims are facing is even worse than killing... and then the most glaring statement to me is: "Do not fight against them near the Holy Mosque UNLESS THEY FIGHT AGAINST YOU; but IF THEY FIGHT AGAINST YOU, kill them."
In other words, you're sending me off, saying don't ask me anything more, since I can't tell you. OKaaaayyy.
