Who do we take if Granger and Green are gone by #9?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">If Splitter is playing behind the league MVP, why aren't we drafting the MVP instead of splitter? Yes, Splitter may not be the focus of the offense like Simien, but he is also not the focus of the defense either so putting up bigger numbers may be easier than if teams were trying to shut him down.</div>

I don't know who MVP are or how old he is. However, you have to remember that Splitter is only 20 years old, and he is playing in pro league, where experienced veterans, who can be as old as 40+ years old, are playing, not a college league, where most of age range are from 18-22. Therefore, Splitter, or any other euroes for that matter, not tearing up the league in that age is quite understandable. Also, since they are in pro league, those teams need to play for a win, not to develop young talents. Splitter may be a good NBA prospect in future. However, those euro teams are there for a win, they may not be able to give Splitter a lot of mins, who's not ready to contribute, like how many NBA teams can't give many mins to high schoolers in early days, even if they know they have a great potential to be great.

Also, just because they won MVP in 'inferior' league, that doesn't mean their success will translate to the next level, and visa versa. I mean, just look at May. He was the guy in this year's championship run, but is there any question that Williams, Felton, or even McCant (quite debatable though) will go higher in the draft? When it comes to the next level, what matters the most is whether that players' skill, body, potential and mindset is ready for the next level. Comparing stats between euro league and college are indeed comparing apple and orange. Pietrus couldn't even make French national team, and Biedrin's euro stats make Splitter's stat like Wilt's stat, but I don't think I will call them busts anytime soon. Heck, comparing college stats between two college players are also quite meaningless to begin with...

 

Not much to say here, cept the fact that the MVP (Luis Scola) was already drafted - by the Spurs who knew they could take him with a late first round pick because no one would take him since he would be stuck without a buyout. Now, they will pickup one of the top Euro players on the cheap since they were patient enough to wait.

 

If Luis Scola is a sound contributor on the Spurs that would prove the rich keep getting richer. How the heck do they keep their payroll down so low? They are just so deep. They must also have a great team for scouting out international talent. Beno Udrih, although not a player with a lot of upside, looks really good. Guys like Ginobili, Parker, and others ended up being huge.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">If Splitter is playing behind the league MVP, why aren't we drafting the MVP instead of splitter? Yes, Splitter may not be the focus of the offense like Simien, but he is also not the focus of the defense either so putting up bigger numbers may be easier than if teams were trying to shut him down.



First of all how can you say that about Simien. May;granted, but not Simien. I think he is plenty athetic. Second of all, how many games of Splitter's have you watched? Then how many of Simien's have you watched?</div>

Luis Scola was drafted by the San Antonio Spurs in 2002 56th overall and is expected to join the team next year. They drafted him and left him playing overseas for a couple of years..they did the same thing with Ginobili.

There's a reason why scouts say in almost every report of an int'l prospect playing in Europe that they should spend one or two - or in some cases three or four - more seasons playing in Europe after they're drafted. Most aren't physically read, some aren't mentally ready. That doesn't mean that given time they won't be.

I watched Splitter play in both of the Euroleague final four games, which were televised on NBATV. I've seen several Kansas games over the past few years. But Splitter has been on the radar for a while now, int'l scouts are very familiar with him and his game. He's nowhere near the unknown that he's being made out to be.

Biedrins was much more of an unknown...and I hadn't seen any games of his games before last year's draft.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting goldenstatefan:</div><div class="quote_post">Luis Scola was drafted by, surprise surprise, the San Antonio Spurs and is expected to join the team next year.

I watched Splitter play in both of the Euroleague final four games, which were televised on NBATV. I've seen a few Kansas games over the past few years.

But I hadn't seen any games of Biedrins before last year's draft.</div>
Hey goldenstatefan, you know any good rumors of international players Mullin has been following? I heard one was small forward Angelo Gigli way way back. Could Mullin have spent time in Europe checking out either Tiago Splitter, Fran Vasquez, Martynas Andriuskevicius yet? BTW guys, check out the picture of Martynas Andriuskevicius. F'n Part Human/Part Giraffe! He better keep a holy cross, garlic and a wooden stake nearby in case vampires come after him.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ...06/06/splitter/




"Hey Olive Oyl, where's Popeye?" (Nice rebound though)




Martynas Andriuskevicius (LTU) had 23 points and 18 rebounds against Greece. Pretty good, but why doesn't he get more playing time?



Pictured with Pavel Podkolzine



One can't help but be intrigued by whether this guy will be the athletic version of Zyldrunas Illgauskus or the athletic version of Shawn Bradley.

 

I wish I had some rumors about Mullin. I do know that Gigli is in the US working out with a number of teams - Phoneix, Utah, Seattle, Detroit, NY, Portland, Denver San Antonio, Miami, Boston and Toronto - trying to get into the mid-late first round.

I've read several accounts on some of his workouts that I'll try to find.

I know that he starts in the Italian league, for Bipop-Carire and he's averaging 10.9 pts. in 27 minutes. Supposedly in workouts he's measuring a legt 7'0 - though some of these rumored measurements have been significantly lower at the Chicago pre-draft camp. His game sounds similar to Zarko. He has the height to play pf but lacks the strength to do so. He has good athleticism and ball handling skills, so he sounds like he could provide some of the same match-up problems Zarko does on offense (and have some of the same problems as Zarko does on defense, though may not be a bad shotblocker). Has some range on his jumper out to the int'l three point line, but is streaky. He sounds less polished than Zarko, that will need to get stronger but sounds like he'll be a better defender.

The word is Andriuskivicius did not perform well at a pre-draft workout on Thursday. I have to say, I'm intrigued by both him and Petro - though I've never seen either play - but both sound like it could take 3-4 years before they're ready to be put on the floor in the NBA.

Here's two write ups on his pre-draft workout from Hoopshype (the writers previously wrote for Draftcity) and Chad Ford:

You can tell that the former Draft City writers are much more detailed and thorough in their reports, while Ford mainly writes brief generalities followed by quotes and information given to him mainly by team scouts and player agents. If you've read enough of Ford's articles - I don't subscribe to Insider, but can find most of his articles online - you can also see that he cuts and pastes a lot of what he writes form past articles and scouting reports and has very little of his own to say.

I also get the feeling that for various reasons Ford keeps purposely leaves things out from his articles, perhaps in fear that if he writes something too negative he'll lose some of his contacts and access, which is all that he has that makes relevent...something pretty apparent after the little episode he had after writing a negative review of Chris Taft in a workout a few weeks ago.

An example in the reporting:

Hoopshype: "Jagla, quite a skinny post player himself, was able to keep Andriuskevicius from doing much on the block, and soon he was settling for outside jumpers. "

Ford: "Andriuskivicus showed some nice moves around the basket and a nice fadeaway baseline jumper."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Jonathan Givony, Rodger Bohn and Jonathan Watters:

Martynas Andriuskevicus: Ansriuskevicius was the feature in a workout that matched him up against former Penn State big man Jan Jagla. Guards Donell Taylor and Drake Diener also participated. In another workout that was controlled in order to showcase only players' strengths, the majority of the time was spent in shooting and agility drills. While Andriuskevicius has a smooth jumper and runs the floor quite well for a big man, it was impossible for him to hide in the two-on-two drills near the end of the workout. In the pick-and-roll drills, he had a hard time staying on his feet and hit the deck quite a few times with a thud. Jagla, quite a skinny post player himself, was able to keep Andriuskevicius from doing much on the block, and soon he was settling for outside jumpers. More disturbing was his obvious lack of conditioning. Andriuskevicius became noticeably winded within a couple of minutes of half court two-on-two, and the trainers had to resort to stopping the drill until he could catch his breath.

Despite the fact that this was a workout intended solely to display his strengths, all Andriuskevicius showed were weaknesses and some ability to inconsistently knock down the NBA three-pointer. Andriuskevicius probably will end up withdrawing from the draft, as we doubt any team would give him a lottery promise after Thursday's workout. It was a highly entertaining workout ? but for all of the wrong reasons. Jan Jagla deserved props for bulking. He looked to be about 25 pounds heavier than he was at Penn State. He's obviously not a great athlete, but the difference between him and Andriuskevicius isn't as far off as you might think.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Chad Ford:

The NBA held a couple of high-profile public workouts at the Chicago pre-draft camp on Thursday.

First up was Lithuanian big man Martynas Andriuskevicius. He has been tutored by Arvydas Sabonis the past two years, but hasn't received much playing time. Still, given his size (7-3) and shooting ability, Andriuskevicius has been ranked by many scouts as a top-10 pick in the draft.

On Thursday, he worked out against 7-footer Jan Jagla of Penn State.

Andriuskevicius spent most of the time in drills. He has great shooting and ball-handling skills for a big man and even showed some range from NBA 3-point distance. Jagla, however, was nearly as good. He shot the ball just as well and showed nice mobility.

They finished the workout going head to head. Andriuskivicus showed some nice moves around the basket and a nice fadeaway baseline jumper. He also played aggressively and fought off the more physical Jagla.

Several NBA scouts that Insider talked to were impressed with his skills. However he really lacks the strength to hold his position in the paint and struggled defensively against Jagla, a guy who went undrafted last season.

His agent, Herb Rudoy, told Insider that Andriuskevicius needed a promise in the top 12 to stay in the draft. He has the talent to warrant that selection, but he's at least two years away, physically, from playing in the NBA. Don't be surprised if he pulls out and tries to bulk out for next year.

Spanish guard Rudy Fernandez was up next. He worked out against Ernest Shelton of Alabama.

Fernandez is a great talent who has put up really good numbers in Spain the past two seasons. However, an injury this spring has hurt his draft stock a bit.

He showed great athleticism, a good handle and a pretty good jump shot on Thursday. The problem was Fernandez looked painfully skinny. He couldn't have weighed 180 pounds.

That's going to be a problem for Fernandez in the NBA. His game right now is about penetration and finishing above the rim. His jumper isn't consistent enough yet to spend more time on the perimeter.

The first time Ben Wallace hits him he could be out a month. While Fernandez has a decent buyout, he really needs to go back to Europe for another year or two

Shortly after the workout, SFX agent David Bauman told Insider that Marko Tomas was pulling out of the draft and it was likely that Nemanja Aleksandrov (who's here but not participating because of an injured knee) will also withdraw from the draft.

They're dropping like flies.

 

Hey thanks, goldenstatefan for replying. Great contribution.

I think I'm like Clif in there being almost limitless ideas for who we could draft and that would all dependent on who we feel confident on right now in our current rotation. REREM, dsigns, WFS93 I gather simply wants a quality player that can contribute with skill, none of the rawness, and plays with heart rather than risk having nothing at all with a player that just sucks or has skill but is lazy. The mentality is since it's probably the last time we'll see a lottery pick and chance to land above average talent to our team, we better not blow it. Run BJM, Map, Cohanhater seem to want the guy who is going to matchup where Murphy/Zarko cannot. Some think it's a cross between Splitter who has the body to add more bulk and is athletic and defensive minded with polish on the offensive end and Taft who is a strong, athletic big body that can become a dominant force in the paint, but has serious red flags about his motivation and is overall skills. And some think it's Petro type project, Ike Diogu (proven Pac-10 player, lacks explosiveness), or a do-it-all surefire bet like Danny Granger (lacks killer instinct/bye bye Dunleavy).

I also feel like Upsidedownside, Kwan, Zhone, and Wtwalker are going for taking the risky pick. We have a starting 9 that is effective (as far as the regular season games indicate going against playoff teams) and we can afford to gamble and use our 2nd rounders to fill in needs. Not sure how risky we want to go in terms of taking the suicide pick like if Marty A. never fills out or if Petro in the draft is the same Petro years from now or if Andray Blatche is a poor man's Keon Clark.

It's a tough call. Hard to trust them writers who think they know a prospect. Take Chris Taft for instance. Those guys were jockin' him hardcore and he ended up showing signs of being grossly overrated thus far. Plus no draft rumors. Mullin is going to make this really suspenseful in who we pick or he's going for a trade. I wouldn't be suprised to see us trading our pick to one of the other lotto teams for a player from 2003 or 2004 + a vet. Maybe Boston will cough up Kendrick Perkins or Al Jefferson or maybe New York will give up Mike Sweetney. Magloire is a possibility if New Orleans feels they cannot re-sign him due to rumors that he would like to play for Toronto some day. Toronto does have the cap to sign him by the time he's due for a new contract (in two years).

Believe it or not I'd actually prefer Mark Blount over what we have now. Maybe Boston wants to trade and get a #9 to take on a shorter, but bloated contract. The condition is we move to #18. Blount becomes the backup when Biedrins is ready to play power forward or center. And we use the #18 to land Andray Blatche, Ike Diogu, or Wayne Simien. I know fat chance of moving Foyle for that contract he has, but you never know who is crazier than Mully.

 

Custodian,If I was to asess Granger,I would not say he lacks killer instinct,it's just that he does it with a surgeons blade,not the backside of a shovel. Against Bogut he used moves that were both physical and clever. He isn't the sort to wave his arms and make faces when he does something,he's doing his job. Likewise,explosive is something Diogu has a lot of,and is the main edge I think he has on Simien who will be a very good pro,especially as a rebounder. Diogu comes down the lane with that sudden power burst you've seen from Amare,or a young Karl Malone. He finishes and sinks the free throw. I don't see that from Kendrick Perkins,a decent player on the rise,but without that extra something. Warrick is another explosive player,VERY explosive.

Elsewhere it is suggested stats are meaningless. That certainly is not so,although stats are not everything and you really need to look at the whole picture,even read between the lines a bit. A player who gets a lot of steals is almost always very quick AND a pretty good defender overall. A scorer who also has a nice FG % has the accuracy/shot selection to score in the pros too. You can figure that nearly every guy who averages 11+ boards will have a decent career...not counting those from some of the very small-time schools. You really need to be tough,focused,a full effort guy to average 11. Actually,10 says a lot,but 11 + puts a guy in a small elite.. There are other factors too. I like to see guys who have standout stats all around,and a few,like Granger and Hodge get very high points there. Granger had more steals than any other F...and more blocks than almost anyone his size,what does that say? To me,its a combination that is VERY rare...especially if you look also at 3 pt %,scoring,Rebounding,etc. Martynas stats in Euroball suggested he could not out play a guy like the wasn't drafted Penn St guy he had a workout with. Bottom line is he has to get twice as good,at least,to rate a comparison to Blatche,who CAN play with the bluechips Once Martynas IS twice as good then he BEGINS to have potential.

Good obsevation on Draft Ciy vs Ford. I don't agree 100% with Draft City,but most of you know I seldom agree 100% on anything...yet Draft City,s reports have pretty good relevance. You gotta call it as you see it...but you also gotta be able to see it.

Most hall of Fame players had standout college stats,and even these days ,Lebron's package of stats,or G Green's,says "Big Talent". OJ Mayo is already a well known phenom,and he was a HS soph this season. His first year as a varsity starter he averaged just over 20pt,not bad for an 8th grader playing HS ball. Had he scored 5.5 it would not have been a big deal. Had he average 20 as a freshman and soph,again,not special.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">
Elsewhere it is suggested stats are meaningless. That certainly is not so,although stats are not everything and you really need to look at the whole picture,even read between the lines a bit. A player who gets a lot of steals is almost always very quick AND a pretty good defender overall. A scorer who also has a nice FG % has the accuracy/shot selection to score in the pros too. You can figure that nearly every guy who averages 11+ boards will have a decent career...not counting those from some of the very small-time schools. You really need to be tough,focused,a full effort guy to average 11. Actually,10 says a lot,but 11 + puts a guy in a small elite.. There are other factors too. I like to see guys who have standout stats all around,and a few,like Granger and Hodge get very high points there. Granger had more steals than any other F...and more blocks than almost anyone his size,what does that say? To me,its a combination that is VERY rare...especially if you look also at 3 pt %,scoring,Rebounding,etc. Martynas stats in Euroball suggested he could not out play a guy like the wasn't drafted Penn St guy he had a workout with. Bottom line is he has to get twice as good,at least,to rate a comparison to Blatche,who CAN play with the bluechips Once Martynas IS twice as good then he BEGINS to have potential.

Good obsevation on Draft Ciy vs Ford. I don't agree 100% with Draft City,but most of you know I seldom agree 100% on anything...yet Draft City,s reports have pretty good relevance. You gotta call it as you see it...but you also gotta be able to see it.

Most hall of Fame players had standout college stats,and even these days ,Lebron's package of stats,or G Green's,says "Big Talent". OJ Mayo is already a well known phenom,and he was a HS soph this season. His first year as a varsity starter he averaged just over 20pt,not bad for an 8th grader playing HS ball. Had he scored 5.5 it would not have been a big deal. Had he average 20 as a freshman and soph,again,not special.</div>

Nobody says stats are completely meaningless. You can kinda see what kind of players they will be when they go to NBA. Like you says, rebounding stats are relatively comparable, since if you are excellent rebounder in college, you are most likely be at least a decent rebounder in NBA. Steal means you are quick and has a quick hand. However, it doesn't mean you are a good defende at all. I mean, just look at NBA.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?s...05&seasontype=2

I will certainly not going to call James, Arenas, Knight, Mcgrady, or Pierce a good defender. And, where is Bowen? 109th. I don't think Fisher, Dunleavy or Murphy is better defender than him. And, fg% are quite meaningless. I agree that if you are not a good shooter in college, you are most likely be a poor shooter. However, even if you are an excellent shooter in college, that doesn't mean you will be a good shooter. Just look at Murphy, who shot 50% from the field in college. His career fg% in NBA is only 43%. You can do whatever you want to do in college. However, if your athlathism doesn't support you in NBA, you are bounded to shoot lower %.

And, that's where reading stats should stop. Because, you just can't use college stats to measure whether he can carry over his college stats to NBA, compare two college players with thier stats, or even compare college players' stat with euro players. I don't even have to beat dead horse, named Foyle and Fuller, how meaningless college stats are when it comes to NBA. You just look at this year's NC, and how Williams will be drafted highest, when May will most likely be drafted mid to low 1st rounder.

We all knew Marty doesn't have upper strength from day one. Therefore, it's no question that he gets pushed around by the guy from Penn. Nobody says he is ready to contribute this year or couple years from now on. Also, Marty's stat in euro are bad, because he is 18 years old playing in pro league. However, when he gets playing time, he produced. If you put Marty to college, he is most likely put up some big stats from the day one. Also, once he adds those upper strenght, he is top 3 pick, because he is quick and has a skill for 7'3" big man. I like Granger especially after reading the workout with Warrick, and if we didn't have such a gigantic hole at defending big man, I wouldn't mind drafting him. However, will he change the future for us? I am sure he will help our ball club, but change the future? Most likely no. Also, getting a help on sf position is the easiest one to fulfill. However, getting a 7'3" skilled big man doesn't happen that often. As a matter of fact, you are lucky to have that kind of chance in once in 5 years. There is a danger that he can be a complete bust. However, if he pans out, he will change the franchise for us, and take us to the next level. Even if he doesn't completely pan out for us, we are at least getting a center. When Yao came here, he didn't exactly dominated somebody, who was 2nd rounder at best as well. Also, Biedrins' euro stat was absolutely horrible, and we knew he doesn't have any upper strength. However, Yao was an All-Star from the beginning, and Bidrins also looks very promising now. So, just because 18 years of Marty was pushed around by Jagla, he is not going to be a successful player in NBA? Hardly an enough evidence.

And, about HF having a great college stats? Didn't we go over that before?

http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...47&page=4&pp=20

Many HF players does have excellent college stats. However, many HF players also does not have excellent college stats. And, this trend will only be accelated, because many excellent college players will jump into NBA as soon as possible. Also, since most of excellent NBA prospects jump into the draft, remaining college products are watered down in terms of talent compare to 20 years ago. Therefore, it's inevitable that not necessary the great NBA prospects will put up greater college stats than 20 years ago, due to lack of competition. Another reason why you shouldn't buy into college stats too much...

 

Let me first state that while I find Petro and Andrius "intrigiuing" I don't favor drafting either one. I might have been earlier in the season but that was when I thought Biedrins might really be a power forward...after seeing him play last season, and the fact that he's continued growing to 7'1 or more, he should have no problem developing into a legit center. David Robinson was about 7'1 250, Biedrins is around 7'1 240 at 18 years old...and he looks to have a solid frame that can add some muscle and allow him to keep his athleticism.

So I'm not sure the Warriors need to take a chance on a center prospect when they already have one, at around the same age as the other two. And though he's the youngest player in the NBA, Biedrins showed that he's not years away from playing solid minutes. He's already good enough to warrant playing time, not 3-4 years away from even being able to see the floor in the league.

Furthermore, I'm not sure that even at full potential either Andrius or Petro is more preferable to Biedrins at his full potential...and given what I've seen of the way Biedrin's plays, and the focus and intensity he's reputed to have in practice as well as games, he appears to be the safest bet of the three to get the closest to his full potential.

So, I don't see the need for drafting a center. And since they've already got two pretty good options at the three in Dunleavy and Pietrus - one of the two will probably become the long term choice at small forward - so I don't really see the need to draft a wing player like Granger or Warrick, though they both sound like they'll be good players. But, are either better prospects than Pietrus? He's already a very good defender, and when he consistently starts going to the basket he'll be a devastating player. And obviously the team is set at the guard positions with Davis and JRich - though there are injury concerns with Davis - and Fisher as the backup pg. If the Warriors are looking for a backup for either one I'd rather they try to find onein a trade, through free agency or in the second round.

In my mind that leaves power forward as the number one concern/position for the Warriors to look at this draft. I'm not that fond of Murphy or Foyle in the long term, so I'd like the Warriors to draft someone who really has the potential to be play alongside Biedrins at the four.

There's a lot of reasons why I've come to the conclusion that Splitter is the best option. First, at 6'11-7'0 and around 235-240 he has the requisite size - along with the athleticism - at 20 years old that to play power forward in the league, and wouldn't be out of position playing minutes at the five.

Secondly, I like his style of play. I like ahtletic, defensive-minded, players and the Warriors already have two young ones in Biedrins and Pietrus. I like the thought of what kind of frontcourt the three of them could be as they develop.

Thirdly, he's played at a high enough level of basketball internationally that he's not unproven and not unknown. He plays professionally in the Spanish league and the Euroleague, which is the height of int'l basketball. While he doesn't start, he gets 17 mins. in the Euroleague, he's showed the ability to shut down opponents and change games, defensively. He's not just a player who looks great in workouts or U-18 competition. I think that limits any bust-potential he might have.

Fourth, I think that given the lack of production from two high European draft picks in Milicic and Tskitishvili, there's still a lot of trepidation by teams and GM's to draft a European player....I think many are still undervalued, which is probably part of the reason the Warriors were able to draft Biedrins and Pietrus as low as they were...both of howm were rumored to be going higher prior to draft day; Biedrins was at one time mocked as a top 3-5 pick.

Add in Splitter's buyout, which probably makes him unavailable for next year, and I think his value drops even more...especially given who the three teams above them are. Utah has pressue because of the huge contracts they gave out last summer to Boozer and Okur and needs a point guard. Toronto is coming off the debacles with Carter and Mourning, and their drafting of Araujo, so they do not seem like a team willing to take Splitter and wait. And because New York is New York - and Fredric Weis turned out to be Fredric Weis - Isaiah Thomas doesn't seem like he'll be gambling on an int'l player or take someone who won't play his first year. And Vazquez may be the first int'l taken, anways.

The Warriors on the other hand, ended last season with a playoff-caliber roster with a lottery-caliber record. They're pretty deep and talented, and while everyone in the Bay Area is tired of the playoff drought, I don't think there are a whole lot of options at the ninth pick that would change the Warriors chances of making the playoffs next year. Sure, injuries are always unpredictable, but I don't think the Warriors should be drafting for a back-up...and there are almost players I see past Bogut who would be starters or key role players for the Warriors next year.

So at nine the Warriors don't seem to have the burden of needing to draft for immediacy, leaving them more free to take a player that may have a lot of talent but won't play for a year or two, while also high enough that a guarantee to any prospective player unsure about staying in the draft should be good enough to keep them in.

When looking at this draft, there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of great players. If they don't take Splitter I think they need to look draft someone with "potential". I'm not that enthusiastic about most of the college players in the draft, not on their NBA potential or their fit with the Warriors. Maybe Taft, but he's got a lot of questions marks. I don't want undersized power forwards. I also don't see the HS class as that deep. Almost everybody seems sold on Green, so he's probably a good bet to live up to the hype, but he's in the top 3-5 picks and past him I don't see that much. Maybe Webster or Miles. I have doubts about Blatche's game, and both he and Bynum present the same problems that a Petro or Andrius does...as not being ready to play, perhaps for several years...and without the ability to keep them in Europe their contracts will count against the Warriors from the time they're drafted...and without much playing time available they could reach the third and fourth years of their contracts without having shown if they're worth signing to longer-term deals. Of the international players, behind Splitter, the two best young all-around talents in this draft are probably Ersan Ilyasova and Yaroslav Korolev. They sound like they have the highest potential behind Williams and Green, and around the same level - above or below, depending - as a Webster or Miles...and both would be available at the nine. Both would have to wait for a few years, as well...but both apppear to be legit blue chip prospects.

And REREM mentioned Marko Tomas earlier, but I'm not sure he's really a lottery talent - though probably in the top 15-25 - and word on him is he's reached a verbal agreement for a three-year deal with Spanish league team Real Madrid, though it will include an NBA buyout.

 

I have seen Frye ply over recent years,but I never got a look at Splitter or Blatche. All 3 are similar size,are considered pretty mobile. Frye is pretty good and figures to improve some more. Splitter and Blatche are younger,it seems they will be better at Frye's age than they are currently,but a real question is how good are they now? How much better will they PROBABLY get-and how good is the best case scenario. Blatche is probably the top HS bigman. Splitter is a rising talent in Euroball. Frye was a regular on a top level college team. Any one of this trio could be the prize or the dud. With no common standard,a HS star,A good College player,A Euro-Pro sixth man,speculation on who has "upside",what stats are relevant,who has the work ethic,and so on. I feel comfortable about Frye,he's the obvious safe pick,most likely to be a capable pro,or at least,the least apt to flop. Even if he were not "the answer" he could be a 7 ft guy with enough value to later be a key to a trade for our "ideal" player. Blatche facinates me. There's indications he has F type range,speed and ball handling,yet he also had some heavy duty RBD numbers. A lot of people say the Euro system tends to keep a guy like Splitter from getting the minutes and stats,and while I understand that,I tend also to think that concept gets carried a bit to far. If Splitter was an Amare type talent,he'd have big minutes and big numbers,and yet we can't expect that at #9. Blatche is not the same type as Amare,but how good can he get? I have a hunch,and it's only a hunch,Blatche becomes the best of the 3. Still,it would be up to the W's to do the investigating. I,and frankly,all of us,have far too little solid,first hand info on Splitter and Blatche.

Getting a big man a notch better than Biedrens would be great. The 3 I discussed,plus Bynum,Taft,Petro might be good,at some point----or might suck and be just the 3rd stringer. Long term,Zarko may be better than these guys. Zarko,with another 15 pounds and more experiance could be pretty good.

I'm often advocating Granger and/or Diogu as guys who are pretty certain to be a plus,and possibly,a star. We could gamble on a big,pure C,in Bynum,could fish for a PF/C with Blatche/Splitter/Frye as possibles. Lots of options. So far,I'm not thinking Splitter is the top option. Its hard to get a consistant picture on Blatche,but he might be our guy. Pending further info I doubt I'll have....I'm sill for Diogu,with Granger avery strong option

 

Good posts, REREM, kwan, and goldenstatefan. Like in a game of blackjack we can come out draft winners or draft losers depending on if we draw or stay. There's probably players that are helpful to a team, but we need to draw that card (if there is any by the time we're up) that will make a huge franchise difference almost by himself. We need some luck because doing all the homework and background checks on these players just isn't enough. I just hope one of the other 8 do something crazy which allows us to wind up with the steal of the draft or we wind up with a player that we'll feel good about on actual draft day. We need something that's simply "kickass" in addition to being effective.

I haven't seen Splitter over a huge period of time, but he's shown flashes of being able to be a great finisher at the rim, solid touch from around the basket with either hand, and he's able to play some with his back to the basket. He can also run and finish on alley oops.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting goldenstatefan:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me first state that while I find Petro and Andrius "intrigiuing" I don't favor drafting either one. I might have been earlier in the season but that was when I thought Biedrins might really be a power forward...after seeing him play last season, and the fact that he's continued growing to 7'1 or more, he should have no problem developing into a legit center. David Robinson was about 7'1 250, Biedrins is around 7'1 240 at 18 years old...and he looks to have a solid frame that can add some muscle and allow him to keep his athleticism.</div>

Since when is Biedrins 7'1"? I think you are confused. First of all, I think you are referencing an interview with Biedrens that he thinks he is still growing and could be 7'1". I personally think his best growth spurts are behind him and he is really a legit 6'10" and wont be much taller than that; 6'11" in shoes. Second of all I saw him standing next to Marcus Camby at the last game against the Warriors at the Pepsi center in Denver. Camby towered over Biedrens...

 

I heard Andris Biedrins was a legit 7 feet now from what announcers Jim Barnett, Bob Fitzgerald, and Tim Roye were all saying. He's still possibly growing as he's kind of young to maybe get another inch.

As for Marcus Camby being taller than Biedrins. I dunno. NBA stats are weird. Some say Fred Jones was actually taller than his listed height of 6'4 and Jrich was actually 6'4 in shoes but listed at 6'6. Regardless of the listed heights, I think most nba profiles should include wingspan, but even teams can't even agree on the same measurements for their players. Probably the only time height matters as much as wingspan is probably for the playmaker and ballhandler since he needs to be able to look over the top of defenses and hit backdoor cutters or find slashers to the hoop. Wingspan is definitely important for big men as they can keep their distance and not have to come in closer to put a hand in somebody's face and then get burnt on the drive. If you look at Tayshaun Prince, he can get away with guarding shooting guards because he can stay back further away with his longer reach and play the angles better.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I heard Andris Biedrins was a legit 7 feet now from what announcers Jim Barnett, Bob Fitzgerald, and Tim Roye were all saying. He's still possibly growing as he's kind of young to maybe get another inch.

As for Marcus Camby being taller than Biedrins. I dunno. NBA stats are weird. Some say Fred Jones was actually taller than his listed height of 6'4 and Jrich was actually 6'4 in shoes but listed at 6'6. Regardless of the listed heights, I think most nba profiles should include wingspan, but even teams can't even agree on the same measurements for their players. Probably the only time height matters as much as wingspan is probably for the playmaker and ballhandler since he needs to be able to look over the top of defenses and hit backdoor cutters or find slashers to the hoop. Wingspan is definitely important for big men as they can keep their distance and not have to come in closer to put a hand in somebody's face and then get burnt on the drive. If you look at Tayshaun Prince, he can get away with guarding shooting guards because he can stay back further away with his longer reach and play the angles better.</div>

I mean he is young so I guess it is possible he could grow, but think about it; most kids stop growing well before 18-20 years old. I am telling you Camby is definately taller than Biedrens. I hope he does grow another inch or so. I also think standing reach and wingspan should be officially listed next to height and weight...

 

During a late season game the W's announcers did comment that Andy B was officially now 7-0,just measured.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">During a late season game the W's announcers did comment that Andy B was officially now 7-0,just measured.</div>
Here's what Biedrins has to say on the subject:

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Listed at 6-foot-11 and 240 pounds, Biedrins added 10 pounds during the season and looks to get even bigger in the offseason.

"Maybe in two years, I might be 7-2," said Biedrins. "I think I'm still growing."

As his competitor on the practice court, Foyle has seen the improvement since the early days of training camp for the then 18-year old.

?He?s gotten a lot stronger,? Foyle said. ?I can feel it a lot in the post. Once he grows into his body, he'll be even better.? </div>
http://www.nba.com/warriors/history/sir_0404_centers.html

I do think he'll eventually play center for the W's. I don't know if he's a legit center in the traditional sense, but he certainly is by today's standards.

As for the other big man draft prospects and how they'll fit with Biedrins, here's how I see things:

-Splitter: I think he's basically a duplication of Biedrins, while it'd be nice to have two defensive-minded big men, I think the offense would suffer too much.

-Frye: see Splitter

-Vazquez: He's probably going to be off the board by the time the Warriors pick, but he's probably got the best combination of offense, defense, and upside of any big man in the draft (outside of Bogut of course).

-Warrick: I've never really been a big fan of his. I've always seen him as a bit more skilled version of Darius Miles. He'd be good for a run and gun style of play, which is what I think the Warriors will play next year, but the W's have enough guys like that. What they need is a guy who can score in the low post in halfcourt sets.

-Taft: I said all throughout the year that I thought he'd drop. I didn't think he'd fall as far as he has, but I've never liked him. Uhh...pass.

-Andriuskevicius: Will probably pull out of the draft, which is a shame. I don't think his critics on this board fully realize that his projected NBA position is not at center, but at power forward. I think he and Biedrins would really compliment each other's skills on the offensive and defensive sides of the court. One fully thing to note is that while he's 7'3", his standing reach is only 3 1/2 inches higher than Diogu's, due to Andriuskevicius' 6'11 1/4" wingspan.

-Diogu: He measured a little shorter than people thought he would in Chicago (6'6 1/2" w/o shoes, 6'8" with shoes, 7'3 1/2" wingspan, 9'1" standing reach), but still within the height measurements for centers. I'd like to see what his vertical leap is before I give him my seal of approval (totally worthless though it may be). Still, I think if Andriuskevicius pulls out as expected, Diogu give the Warriors the best combination of low post scoring and shot-blocking of anyone in the draft.

One other interesting point from Ford's second mock draft is that Blatche wasn't in the first round. I'd love it if this kid's stock dropped enough that the W's could pick him up in the second round. It'd be a bigger steal than getting Arenas.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
As for the other big man draft prospects and how they'll fit with Biedrins, here's how I see things:

-Splitter: I think he's basically a duplication of Biedrins, while it'd be nice to have two defensive-minded big men, I think the offense would suffer too much.
</div> I would agree on this from the glimpses and footage where he actually played a lot of minutes that he is similar to Biedrins in the way that he is also a very active defending big men that is also very athletic for his 6'11 size. Splitter supposedly has more polish offensively, posesses good floor awareness/understanding of the game, and can play inside and out due to his earlier days playing as a ballhandling small forward (he had early comparisons to Dirk Nowitzki with his coordination, ability to hit some threes, dribble the ball, rebound and shoot midrangers). His only downside is his lack of strength and free throw percentages, but he plays smart, understands the game at a high level, and could be a nice chemistry guy that can score in a variety of ways in addition to being a great help defender and individual defender. He probably won't be the greatest defensive rebounder in the world, but he can box out for Biedrins and understands positioning and floor spacing. Essentially, we'd have a Pau Gasol/Chris Mihm clone that is more aggressive and plays better defense. He might suffer early in the league due to lack of physical strength, but you have to love the fact this guy could develop a more consistent midrange and 3-point shot due to his solid shooting mechanics. He's also aggressive and not afraid of contact, but I haven't see much inside play to back that up. He scores essentially in the same way as Biedrins (off feeds, in transition, or putbacks). He's also a mildly exciting player to watch as he's quick for his size and can throw it down two handed with ferocity. He's not as exciting as Fran Vasquez, though as he didn't seem to really throw it down strong on top of anybody, but Splitter did have some huge blocks getting guys from behind or straight from the weakside.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
-Frye: see Splitter
</div> Could you explain the reasoning why Frye is the same as Splitter? Channing Frye seems definitely less intense and less inviting/instigating of contact, but then again we haven't seen Splitter as much as we've seen Frye. I don't see why Frye would be a detriment to our team's offense with his ability to spread the floor, pass the ball or how he would draw any Andris Biedrins-like qualities. He is athletic, has soft touch, but by no means considered laterally quick or aggressive in the paint or a tough rebounder as he could have been in college. His inside moves are probably that of Splitter's at this point.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
-Vazquez: He's probably going to be off the board by the time the Warriors pick, but he's probably got the best combination of offense, defense, and upside of any big man in the draft (outside of Bogut of course).
</div> This guy if anything, seems like a pretty close comparrison to Andris Biedrins rather than Tiago Splitter or Channing Frye. Vasquez is quite an athlete, with the mentality to dunk it hard or block every shot. He's got a great work ethic and he's just intense. He's simply everywhere. I don't know how good his midrange shot is, but he seems very raw still. He could be a player with nearly equivalent or more upside than Tiago Splitter with his work ethic. The thing that bothers me is Vasquez wasn't on the board until this year where he is age 23. Splitter, in the meantime, has been scouted heavily since three years ago when the scouts originally projected Splitter as a 6'10 small forward with the way he handled the ball and posessed Dirk/Zarko-like qualities to his game. Now Splitter has developed more of his inside game since his team deploys him as a 6'11/7'0 power forward in the paint.

But back to Fran Vasquez, I think he'll be still left on the board by the time we're up, I'm sure of it. He doesn't have enough overall skill to be warranted a top 6 and he's like age 23. Knicks probably won't take him unless they're over that unsigned first round Euro center that got jumped over and dunked on by Vince Carter in the olympics a while back.

Also, since the BAP with potential is Antoine Wright at #6, some say Martell Webster or Raymond Felton at #6, the Raptors might try to go for an explosive and athletic shooting guard or point guard since they've already drafted Rafael Araujo as the big man to concentrate on developing. If Vasquez is the future, they'd have to move Chris Bosh to center and he's probably better off being a power forward with those skills he has. Vasquez would then have to play center or off the bench and the eventual starting rotation of Bosh/Vasquez may not be what the Raptors would be looking for in terms of a starting forward/center tandem, especially after giving Araujo a contract and not developing him to a point where he can become better about not getting into foul trouble.

There is some danger that Vasquez could be snatched up by Utah, but considering their team was good right up to the point it just simply fell apart after they traded away their best playmaking/scoring point guard and had injuries to their star front court. I think based on the way the Jazz are configured, they need either a point guard or a true center built for the halfcourt with high post passing skills/defense/proven scoring rather than a 6'10 open court power forward/center that can't create his own shot, might be too weak for center and is still learning the game. There's lots of good point guards in this draft like Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Raymond Felton and everyone knows the lack of pure points in the league that can score are as rare as big men with low post footwork, shotblocking, and rebounding.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
-Warrick: I've never really been a big fan of his. I've always seen him as a bit more skilled version of Darius Miles. He'd be good for a run and gun style of play, which is what I think the Warriors will play next year, but the W's have enough guys like that. What they need is a guy who can score in the low post in halfcourt sets.
</div> I didn't even think Warrick could handle the ball very well or pass like a playmaker, but he definitely has the same limited shotrange, length and shotblocking as D-Miles. I think he has less skills than D-Miles, but way better work ethic, attitude, strength, and intensity. Probably also a better free throw shooter too. He could be a good defender like Miles is occasionally. Not really sold on D-Miles or Warrick. D-Miles could have been great if he worked on that darn free throw shooting of his and his strength conditioning. He can definitely handle the ball, pass, rebound, defend, get to the rim, but he just can't finish sometimes or shoot very well.

Warrick to me, seems like a Stromile Swift type player. Very exciting player, but may lack a true position or skillset to make him a reliable option.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
-Taft: I said all throughout the year that I thought he'd drop. I didn't think he'd fall as far as he has, but I've never liked him. Uhh...pass.
</div> Hype! Workouts now confirm that the scouts pumping him up and anybody following the whole Taft lotto hype has been grievously deceived. I guess his college game showed what type of player he was, but the workouts definitely confirmed it. If he was athletic/strong as Amare Stoudamire, he may be worth a late first round... but he's not even an elite level athlete. More importantly, he just doesn't seem to give a damn. He could be the next Jerome Moiso on his way out of the league.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
-Andriuskevicius: Will probably pull out of the draft, which is a shame. I don't think his critics on this board fully realize that his projected NBA position is not at center, but at power forward. I think he and Biedrins would really compliment each other's skills on the offensive and defensive sides of the court. One fully thing to note is that while he's 7'3", his standing reach is only 3 1/2 inches higher than Diogu's, due to Andriuskevicius' 6'11 1/4" wingspan.
</div> Interesting. I think it would be cool to see how his last name would fit on to the back of an nba jersey with his "width of a pez dispenser" type frame. He is probably the epitome of project, but he's done some Euro-Shaq impressions in a few clips that may prove he's not as soft as some describe. He's also a good interior passer, but he doesn't seem to be a shotblocker despite his quick reflexes. Then again, the kid simply doesn't get playing time to really get a feel about him or how the coach is using him.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
-Diogu: He measured a little shorter than people thought he would in Chicago (6'6 1/2" w/o shoes, 6'8" with shoes, 7'3 1/2" wingspan, 9'1" standing reach), but still within the height measurements for centers. I'd like to see what his vertical leap is before I give him my seal of approval (totally worthless though it may be). Still, I think if Andriuskevicius pulls out as expected, Diogu give the Warriors the best combination of low post scoring and shot-blocking of anyone in the draft.
</div> I'm now a fan of Diogu now that there's some signs he might not struggle as badly at the next level. Heck Foyle "can barely jump over a phone book"(according to the wry comments of some TNT or ESPN announcers games ago) and yet he rebound the ball if he isn't giving up his position and also block shots. Diogu is way more coordinated and athletic than Foyle, I think. Diogu can also score despite being doubled and triple teamed. He can get to the foul line. He can rebound and put numbers up and I think that's where the Malik Rose comparrisons should stop, because he seems to be closer to Elton Brand with the way he uses his body and footwork to create separation. Kind of a combo between a safe pick and somebody whose game is a question mark when it comes to translating to the NBA. He isn't explosive compared to other in your face power forwards like Kmart or Jermaine O'neil, but he's got heart, plays big and he's got some hard to find skills all in the same package.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
One other interesting point from Ford's second mock draft is that Blatche wasn't in the first round. I'd love it if this kid's stock dropped enough that the W's could pick him up in the second round. It'd be a bigger steal than getting Arenas.</div> That's hard to see Blatche slipping that far down, but I hope we can get him that far down or trade our two second rounders for a guaranteed contract late first rounder. Maybe if we really wanted to gamble we could do Monta Ellis 2nd round (if he falls). The kid is like a Steve Francis type, athletic as heck, can shoot off the dribble, but can't catch and shoot. His defense isn't too great, bball iq isn't too great either, doesn't.... Maybe pass, but it is risky and high ceiling is there. He could be what Dajaun Wagner was supposed to be in a high scoring combo guard or he could be a blackhole on offense, sucker on defense type of player. Actually, completely pass on that guy. Better to find somebody that is less selfish, can play offense and pay the same amount of attention on defense as he does with offense.