Covered in Judge Walker's decision is why civil unions are not the same and why marriage is not just semantics. Have you read it?
If civil unions were exactly the same as gay marriage, would you support them? an easier path to "equal rights" would be to have civil unions have the same definintions as marriage. Then gays have the rights they are wanting and the church thumpers don't have to argue about Gay Marriage.
Civil Unions *SHOULD* be marriages. The goverment and the churches should have completely seperate goals. As stated above, I (and I think crandc) would be in complete agreement with you.
Well the problem is the religious groups will forever fight gay marriages even if the supreme court weighs in on it. So just make everyone get civil unions and the churches and organizations issue marriages (which hold only a ceremonial distinction). Would save a shitload of arguing, time and everyone's money IMO.
I think it's a great idea too to split the religious institution of marriage with the legal status of civil union. Ironically, marriages are one of the few remaining functions served by religious groups among millions of Americans. Last time I spoke to a priest was in 2002 to discuss our wedding ceremony. The end result of all this anti-gay marriage stuff could be that the religious drive away one of the last good reasons I can see to go into a church. I know that if one of my sons gets married many years from now, I'm going to strongly discourage him from participating in any sort of ceremony in a building that discriminates against gays.
In the US marriage is and always has been civil. Clergy coduct marriages because the states allow them to do so. Clergymembers may decline to conduct a particular marriage but that has no bearing on whether the state legally recognizes that marriage. Civil unions for gays aside from not covering all benefits sets up a special institution only for same sex couples while straight couples alone have access to "real" marriage. It explicitly defines same sex couples as separate and unequal and stigmatizes them as being outside of "real" marriage. You could not find any same sex couple who finds them equal and in fact people who oppose marriage equality know civil unions are not equal. Of course many of those people oppose civil unions anyway because they don't want gays and lesbians to have any rights, even inferior segregated ones. Gays and lesbians are the only sector explicitly legally set aside as having inferior rights in the US. By law (although not practice) all ethnicities, races & religions are equal before the law. By law men and women are equal. By law people with disabilities are equal. Everyone is equal before the law, except GLBT people. Again, read the decision.
What's the point of a civil union law in California when the married couple can't move to Texas and have their union acknowledged? On the face of it, if there are two sets of rules, one is certain to be inferior in some way. It has to be marriage as the law knows it everywhere, and it is going to be (and should be) legitimized everywhere (as it should be).
Would that change if there was gay marriage in California? If gay marriage was legal in California, would it be recognized in Texas?
Marriage is marriage. There are centuries of common law precedents that shape the laws throughout the nation. If Texas wanted to refuse it, they'd have to pass a law that would equally be thrown out in court. With civil unions, it is not so clear.
If men and women are equal, I should be able to freely go into a women's restroom with no fear or repercussion.
Have you ever gone into a women's restroom? I've never been anything but welcomed. Certainly no fear of/or repercussion. Then again, your mileage may differ. barfo
Because of the Defense of Marriage Act, which is also being overturned. Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution reads: Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Exactly. Get the government out of the marriage business. Create civil unions for everyone who wants them--straight, gay, polygyny, polyandry, group marriage, whatever. Marriage should be the provence of churches only. Repped.
