<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">Finals MVP? That's great. I'm not taking anything away from the man's game. He's showed me and everyone else that he's the real deal. He's a superstar and he derserved the MVP. But starting to talk about him being the best player ever is complete bull to da ****. Dwyane Wade is great, but let's face it, the guy's team was better than a lot of the other superstars out there('Bron,Kobe,etc.) Let's not forget, Bron carried that piece of **** team all the way to the 2nd round and almost beat the Pistons. I hate to say it, but Bron and the boys softned up the Pistons for Wade. Kobe carried his shity ass team with not inside game what so ever and almost beat the great Phoenix Suns. Wade had a legendary coach in Pat Riley, a legendary player in Shaq, and a cast full of hungery veterans who came up and produced in the playoffs. If Kobe or 'Bron were to be put in the situation, you can't stop and say that there would never be a championship for them.</div> Why do you have to start this? Noone asked. Fans are celebrating. Is that not allowed on this board?
Because I look at the TV and Greg Anthony tells me that there is no doubt that DWade is the best in the league. Because I look at ESPN.com and I see a poll that says that DWade is a runaway winner for best in the league. All this championship talk pisses me off because we will all forget the underated season that LeBron and Kobe had. This WILL all be forgetten when Bron wins the Champioship next(No this is not a typo) year with his shitty ass team. At least Wade has a sidekick and an inside game. 'Bron and Kobe have....
LMAO ok. then Put Bron/Wade with that young/lean Shaq that Kobe had. Probably same outcome for either players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah sure, Shaq is aging, but he's a huge part of why Dwade is Dwade. You're telling me that if 'Bron got drafted to the Heat and Wade got drafted to Cavs, that the Cavs would win a championship and Wade would be the best in the league?</div> Probably not. People who prefer Wade to Kobe/LeBron aren't doing so simply because he just won a championship. It's because of the way he played enroute to that championship. Wade just got better and better as these playoffs progressed. Throughout the regular season, he had a special quality to be able to lift his play at the end of close games. He was able to continue that in the playoffs against the best competition. Regardless of the championship, it's Wade's quality of play that has vaulted him into truly elite status. Is he the best in the game? Who can say? He was an underrated MVP candidate during the regular season, and he proved that he could deliver on the highest stage. I think one could make an argument for Wade being the best in the game, even at his young age. I wonder why it bothers you so much that Wade is getting more recognition? Winners get the publicity. That's why Kobe was usually favored over McGrady for so many years, even though McGrady easily matched him in terms of productivity. That's just how it is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post">Because I look at the TV and Greg Anthony tells me that there is no doubt that DWade is the best in the league. .</div> DWade is the best in the league right now, but don't listen to that asshole, when the detroit series started he said Hamilton was just as good as Wade.
I agree with you. It would be the same outcome. But go back to what I said. If Bron got drafted by the heat and wade to the cavs. The cavs would have never won a championship and wade wouldn't be called the best in the league. The heat would of also won the past 3 NBA championships.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck~Taylor:</div><div class="quote_post"> The heat would of also won the past 3 NBA championships.</div> Hypotheticals are such a weak argument. If Magic wasn't drafted by the Lakers, would he have won 5 championships? If the Bulls never traded for Scottie Pippen and if Phil Jackson never took over as coach, would Jordan have ever gotten over the hump? Who cares. LeBron is phenomenal. Kobe is spectacular. But right now, it is Dwyane Wade's time. Next season could be a different story.
^^ Yup. Bball's team sport. What/who surrounds u makes a huge impact on how u grow as a player. Winning a ring isn't all about skills either. U need everything going ur way. If Bron was a Heat playing with Shaq, I think we could win a ring as well. But Miami loves Wade and happy with him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">You sure are a bright one. Apparently, you know more about the NBA than Shaq, Riley and Billups. I'd sure like to meet you one day. I mean, the guy onle put up lik 35 ,7 and 4 in his first finals and won the MVP, he's so much worse than Kobe and Lebron who've never won Finals MVP. And he did it with an aging Shaq, while Kobe did it with Shaq in his prime. Can you believe that? Kobe is soooo much better isn't he. Not to mention he only shot like almost 70% against the best defense in the league, that sucks. I'm sure Lebron could have done better if he wanted to.</div> Save the sarcasm....WADE IS NOT BETTER THAN KOBE, PERIOD. For a number of reasons that we both know is true. But he is a great young superstar who will dominate for years to come. He's easily the most likeable guy in the NBA, but he's no Kobe Bryant. Anybody who thinks so doesn't watch basketball that much
Wade single handidly (spelling?) took a mediocore heat team to the second round as a rookie. with odom, hummmmmm, thats who kobe has, wierd.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Save the sarcasm....WADE IS NOT BETTER THAN KOBE, PERIOD. For a number of reasons that we both know is true. But he is a great young superstar who will dominate for years to come. He's easily the most likeable guy in the NBA, but he's no Kobe Bryant. Anybody who thinks so doesn't watch basketball that much</div> Name the reasons you know to be true, and explain how it demonstrates Kobe as the clearly superior player. I'm not saying Wade is necessarily better, but I'm curious about your reasoning. I don't think either is obviously better than the other.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Name the reasons you know to be true, and explain how it demonstrates Kobe as the clearly superior player. I'm not saying Wade is necessarily better, but I'm curious about your reasoning. I don't think either is obviously better than the other.</div> First off, Kobe is a better defender. Second, Kobe is a better scorer. He's also better in the clutch, and a better free throw shooter in the clutch. Put Wade on the Lakers right now, they'd be in the lottery. Simple as that. But Wade is destine for greatness, and could be in the Hall of Fame before he retires
Stop saying Lebron has a sh**** a** team. He has an all-star center in Ilgauskas and has an all-star guard in Hughes. Neither of them played well in the playoffs but that doesn't mean that they're not very good players. Add in the fact that they have a very decent players in Gooden and Marshall. I wouldn't call that a s**t team. I would not say Wade is the best player in the league right now but he is right up there with LeBron/Kobe/Duncan. He single-handeldly lead his team to the championship, which neither LeBron or Kobe can say. Doesn't mean that he's better but not many players in history can say that they carried their team the whole series to the championship like Wade just did. Anyone that watched the whole series would agree. Anytime, the Heat needed a big basket or play, Wade came through. Shaq was pretty useless, not scoring and stinking it up from the free-throw line. He's even a detriment to the team during the last couple minutes of the game.
I agree in the fact that Dwade isn't the best player in the NBA, BUT he is definately in the top 5 and maybe top 3. Your right about the MJ comparisons in that Dwade isn't even close to being anywhere near MJ and Lebron isn't either. The fact of the matter still holds that no one can gaurd Wade to the point where he won't score the ball and get his own. What Dallas did wrong was they tried to stop Wade and Shaq when they should have tried to stop everyone except Wade. Wade's team is a big effect. Posey, Walker, Mourning, and Shaq to a lesser degree did ALOT. Wade is good, but not the best.
<u>Kobe Bryant's</u> stats for last finals' series 03-04' 8th season 22.6 ppg(%?) 2.8 reb 4.4 ast <u>Dwyane Wade's</u> stats for first finals' series 05-06' 3rd season 34.7 ppg 46.8% 7.8 reb 3.8 ast 2.67 stl <font color=""RoyalBlue"">*<u>Richard Hamiliton's</u> finals' stats 03-04'</font> 21.4 ppg 5.2 reb 4.0 ast ---- I cant find the percentages from Kobe on that 04' finals series; i'm sure however they we're horrible.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>Kobe Bryant's</u> stats for last finals' series 03-04' 8th season 22.6 ppg(%?) 2.8 reb 4.4 ast <u>Dwyane Wade's</u> stats for first finals' series 05-06' 3rd season 34.7 ppg 46.8% 7.8 reb 3.8 ast 2.67 stl <font color=""RoyalBlue"">*<u>Richard Hamiliton's</u> finals' stats 03-04'</font> 21.4 ppg 5.2 reb 4.0 ast ---- I cant find the percentages from Kobe on that 04' finals series; i'm sure however they we're horrible.</div> Hmm...I'm guessing ..the higher the better?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, Kobe is a better defender. Second, Kobe is a better scorer.</div> A better defender ... maybe. Though he doesn't rack up quite as many steals/blocks. A better scorer? In some respects, yeah. However ... Statistically, there really are only two areas in which Kobe was clearly better. He scored more points, and he was better at limiting turnovers. Wade was a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, got more assists, steals, and blocks. Kobe had a higher PER ... barely (28.0 to 27.6). His on/off net +/- numbers aren't as good. Though of course that could be attributed to other factors. It is interesting that team defense was better for Miami with Wade on the court, while significantly worse for the Lakers with Kobe on the court. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He's also better in the clutch, and a better free throw shooter in the clutch</div> This, I disagree with. Check for yourself: Kobe in clutch Wade in clutch <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Put Wade on the Lakers right now, they'd be in the lottery. Simple as that. </div> How much did that crystal ball cost you?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>Kobe Bryant's</u> stats for last finals' series 03-04' 8th season 22.6 ppg(%?) 2.8 reb 4.4 ast <u>Dwyane Wade's</u> stats for first finals' series 05-06' 3rd season 34.7 ppg 46.8% 7.8 reb 3.8 ast 2.67 stl <font color=""RoyalBlue"">*<u>Richard Hamiliton's</u> finals' stats 03-04'</font> 21.4 ppg 5.2 reb 4.0 ast ---- I cant find the percentages from Kobe on that 04' finals series; i'm sure however they we're horrible.</div> Ur point? The Miami Heat are a different team than that Lakers team. Wade's role was different that Kobe's, and Phil's system was different the Riley's. Kobe is hands down better, and outplays Wade almost everytime they match up. But Wade played GREAT in the finals and he's the man right now. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Statistically, there really are only two areas in which Kobe was clearly better. He scored more points, and he was better at limiting turnovers. Wade was a more efficient scorer, a better rebounder, got more assists, steals, and blocks. Kobe had a higher PER ... barely (28.0 to 27.6). His on/off net +/- numbers aren't as good. Though of course that could be attributed to other factors. It is interesting that team defense was better for Miami with Wade on the court, while significantly worse for the Lakers with Kobe on the court. How much did that crystal ball cost you?</div> C'mon now, it's called common basketball knowledgle lol. Wade benefited from having 3 former 20pt a game scorers on his team. Yea there all outta their primes, but they still know how to contribute. Hypotheticaly, replace Mourning with Kwame Brown, Jason Williams with Smush Parker, and Posey with Luke Walton and tell me if Wade would be getting the very WIDE open looks he got.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post"> C'mon now, it's called common basketball knowledgle lol. Wade benefited from having 3 former 20pt a game scorers on his team. Yea there all outta their primes, but they still know how to contribute. Hypotheticaly, replace Mourning with Kwame Brown, Jason Williams with Smush Parker, and Posey with Luke Walton and tell me if Wade would be getting the very WIDE open looks he got.</div> If you actually think Posey and Mourning were even above-average offensive threats this season, I don't know what game you were watching. They were very limited offensive players. They're value was almost exclusively on the defensive end. Same thing with Payton. And Antoine Walker ... please. He brings very little value to an offense because he's so inefficient and a bad decision maker. The only player who might make things much easier for Wade is Shaq. But Wade actually scored at a much higher rate when Shaq wasn't on the court with him ... so, it's hard to argue that Wade's great numbers can be attributed to him. And please don't give me the "common basketball knowledge" line. What's "common basketball knowledge" often turns out to be nothing more than media hype. Give me facts. During the regular season: In the 27% of the Heat's minutes in which Wade was not on the court, Miami was outscored by 7.8 points per 48 minutes. In the 18% of the Laker's minutes in which Kobe was not on the court, LA was outscored by 7.9 points per 48 minutes. Virtually the same. With Wade on the court, Miami outcored opponents by 8.1 points per 48 minutes. With Kobe on the court, LA outscored opponents by only 4.8 points per 48 minutes. Hmmm ... well maybe that's just because Wade has Shaq. Except, if you only look at the time when Wade is on the court without Shaq, the Heat still outscore opponents by 5.9 points per 48 minutes. In conclusion, it appears that the Heat were just about as helpless without Wade on the floor as the Lakers were without Kobe on the floor. Further, the Heat played better with Wade on the court (regardless of whether Shaq is also there) than the Lakers did with Kobe on the court. All of that may not be "common knowledge", but they are actual facts.
Wade showed that he didn't need Shaq to be on the floor to be effective. All those 4th quarter comebacks/performances came with Shaq sitting on the bench for large chunks because of his free throw percentage.
