Why We Shouldn't Draft Redick at 11

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">i never compared him to pistol, i simply pointerd out that he was the last guy i could remeber that scored that well at college at a premier team. and morrison is a good 2 inches taller and a good position higher, like i said. sf's in the leaguew now are so much quicker than him (like redick) but no one is saying he wont be able to score. also allan ray CAN NOT shoot anywhere near redick's ability. he is good, but not very athletic and doesnt appear to have any desire to win. in those nova games i saw live (i eatched like 7 or 8 others on tv) when nova really needed a bucket ray wa either on the bench or hiding. foye took over every time, not ray. and when he did get the ball, he missed.

and jonboy. quincy lewis wasnt close to 30 ppg, dont try to sneak in guys that wernt close to make your bust percentage high. put some numbers with those players please. and not a one of those guys can hold a candle shooting wise to redick.</div>


1. Allan Ray got his eye messed up before the tournament remember? So coming back less than a week with his eye getting messed up, doesn't show a desire to win?
2. Randy Foye was their best player, there's a reason some teams are talking about him in the lottery and potentially Top 10. Allan Ray took a lot of key shots for them.
3. Are you saying JJ Redick is more athletic than Allan Ray?
4. Just because you watched him live for 2 games doesn't mean that you know more about him then others who haven't seen him live.
5. He(Jonboy) was showing you who led the BCS conferences in scoring for those years. Only like 2 of them have ever been good.
6. Morrison can create his own shots, most of Redicks shots come off of screens, which is why Morrison doesn't have the same kind of questions that Redick has.
7. What is the point of being able to make 15 foot FT's when you aren't going to get to the line that often. He won't get the calls that he is accustomed to getting in the NBA.
8. Would you want the Twolves to use their lottery pick on a player that will be a bench player for you?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually Redick has been talked a lot about being taken in the Top 10. He could go as high as #7 to Boston, Ainge is a big fan. Ford thinks Houston will take him because he's a good fit there.

Redick is not a spot up shooter, he takes most of his shots off the dribble or coming off screens. Teams who can execute the pick and roll in the NBA are going to be successful. This is one of the main reasons I like Redick in Orlando.</div>

Really? Alright I thought he was pretty much a lock to be available where the Magic pick. I would put money on the Magic drafting Redick though. I bet he's who we get, although i would much rather have a guy who can play defense and gets others involved(a la Ronnie Brewer)

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Allan Ray got his eye messed up before the tournament remember? So coming back less than a week with his eye getting messed up, doesn't show a desire to win?
2. Randy Foye was their best player, there's a reason some teams are talking about him in the lottery and potentially Top 10. Allan Ray took a lot of key shots for them.
3. Are you saying JJ Redick is more athletic than Allan Ray?
4. Just because you watched him live for 2 games doesn't mean that you know more about him then others who haven't seen him live.
5. He(Jonboy) was showing you who led the BCS conferences in scoring for those years. Only like 2 of them have ever been good.
6. Morrison can create his own shots, most of Redicks shots come off of screens, which is why Morrison doesn't have the same kind of questions that Redick has.
7. What is the point of being able to make 15 foot FT's when you aren't going to get to the line that often. He won't get the calls that he is accustomed to getting in the NBA.
8. Would you want the Twolves to use their lottery pick on a player that will be a bench player for you?
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allan ray's eye WASNT messed up. his eye lid slipped behind his eye causing NO damage to his eye, not even a scratch. and he took a lot of big shots, and missed them. like i said i watched nova like 8-9 times this year, not two. and when you see a game live, you pay a lot more attention. MOrrison creates shots with his size, something he wont have at the next level. he just shoots over people. Who says Redick wont get to the line. he can pumpfake anybody, and get to the line that way.

and the twolves are in a way different position. you guys can be patient. and the 6th pick is a little different than the 11th. the wolves need a guy to step up now because kg is getting old. The magic's future is extremely young and can wait or even get redick who i would be an amazing bench player. and the 6th pick for us will most likely will be a bench player (McHale cant draft at all, KG was the only good pick he ever made.)

and those lists were bogus. most of them werent even that good of players to begin with. like quincy lewis.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">allan ray's eye WASNT messed up. his eye lid slipped behind his eye causing NO damage to his eye, not even a scratch. and he took a lot of big shots, and missed them. like i said i watched nova like 8-9 times this year, not two. and when you see a game live, you pay a lot more attention. MOrrison creates shots with his size, something he wont have at the next level. he just shoots over people. Who says Redick wont get to the line. he can pumpfake anybody, and get to the line that way.

and the twolves are in a way different position. you guys can be patient. and the 6th pick is a little different than the 11th. the wolves need a guy to step up now because kg is getting old. The magic's future is extremely young and can wait or even get redick who i would be an amazing bench player. and the 6th pick for us will most likely will be a bench player (McHale cant draft at all, KG was the only good pick he ever made.)

and those lists were bogus. most of them werent even that good of players to begin with. like quincy lewis.</div>

I would say that Allan Ray's eye was messed up. Maybe not as bad as I am saying, but are you telling me he was seeing like normal? His vision wasn't as good and he still helped lead his team farther than JJ led his team(different circumstances I understand) and would have been farther if they didn't meet up with the Gators. I'm not saying that Allan Ray is a better player than Redick, because if he was he would be getting talked around the same spot as JJ Redick. I'm just saying we could draft someone in the exact same role that Redick will be used in 33 picks later and not lose too much.

Alright, so you agree that Redick would be a bench player then? So who would be our starting SG in the case of drafting him? What is the use of depth when you don't have a starter? So do you think we would be better off starting Donta Smith/Eddie Basden and bringing JJ Redick off the bench or Ronnie Brewer and Allan Ray off the bench?

Different situations yes, but we've been in the lottery 3 years in a row now(I think it's the same as Twolves, maybe only 2 years for them). We have a big hole at SG and we need to draft a starter, depth is what you get in the 2nd round.

The more I think about it, the more I want us to draft Ronnie Brewer. Sure he's not that great of a shooter, but he is good at creating for his teammates and he can play defense.

On that list, they were the people who led the BCS conferences in scoring, so they couldn't have been that bad to lead a BCS conference in scoring.

 

And allan ray's eye didnt have a single scratch on it. and redick i think could be great in two, three years and then be a starter. and most rookies dont start. if someone could find i would love to see how many lottery picks from last year started more then 2/3 of their games. especially ever from an eleventh pick. these guys dont ususally start ever. think about last years draft. marvin williams, i dont think deron wiliams or raymond felton did either, martell webster, i am pretty sure cv31 didnt, channing frye, ike diogu, andrew bynum. those were all players picked before your last years pick of fran vasquez at 11 who didnt play a game. i can keep going through this draft. CP3 and Bogut (who i also think didnt start 2/3 of his games. were the only ones. it goes that way through the whole first round.

Dude, i am not sure about too many of those guys, but quincy lewis wasnt very good at minny. he was the guy left over from the scandal that year (i believe). he was all we had.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">And allan ray's eye didnt have a single scratch on it. and redick i think could be great in two, three years and then be a starter. and most rookies dont start. if someone could find i would love to see how many lottery picks from last year started more then 2/3 of their games. especially ever from an eleventh pick. these guys dont ususally start ever. think about last years draft. marvin williams, i dont think deron wiliams or raymond felton did either, martell webster, i am pretty sure cv31 didnt, channing frye, ike diogu, andrew bynum. those were all players picked before your last years pick of fran vasquez at 11 who didnt play a game. i can keep going through this draft. CP3 and Bogut (who i also think didnt start 2/3 of his games. were the only ones. it goes that way through the whole first round.

Dude, i am not sure about too many of those guys, but quincy lewis wasnt very good at minny. he was the guy left over from the scandal that year (i believe). he was all we had.</div>

So you think Allan Ray was just making a big deal about his eye and missed a couple of practices because of it, just for the hell of it? Just because there was no scratches doesn't mean that the eye was fine. I don't know for sure, but I bet his vision was a little off at least.

All the people that you listed are all well and good, they haven't proven anything. What had Channing Frye, Marvin Williams, Charlie Villanueva proven in college basketball? What had Andrew Bynum and Martell Webster proven in HS? They were all drafted based on potential. JJ Redick is one of the few guys that can come in right away and start for teams(but not the Magic). There isn't a 2-3 year learning curve there for him, since he played at Duke for all 4 years. He has to come in and produce right away.

That was the list of people who led BCS schools in scoring, so saying that just because JJ Redick led the big conferences in scoring doesn't mean he will be a great pro, because if you look at JonBoy's list, you would see that not many of them made it big in the NBA.

Please tell me why JJ Redick would be a better fit on the Orlando Magic then a Ronnie Brewer or a Rodney Carney or hell even a Mardy Collins. All I've heard you say was he has a great shot, so he will be a good player, but you haven't compared him to Brewer/Carney/Collins or said anything about why he would be a great fit for the Orlando Magic.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">So you think Allan Ray was just making a big deal about his eye and missed a couple of practices because of it, just for the hell of it? Just because there was no scratches doesn't mean that the eye was fine. I don't know for sure, but I bet his vision was a little off at least.

All the people that you listed are all well and good, they haven't proven anything. What had Channing Frye, Marvin Williams, Charlie Villanueva proven in college basketball? What had Andrew Bynum and Martell Webster proven in HS? They were all drafted based on potential. JJ Redick is one of the few guys that can come in right away and start for teams(but not the Magic). There isn't a 2-3 year learning curve there for him, since he played at Duke for all 4 years. He has to come in and produce right away.

That was the list of people who led BCS schools in scoring, so saying that just because JJ Redick led the big conferences in scoring doesn't mean he will be a great pro, because if you look at JonBoy's list, you would see that not many of them made it big in the NBA.

Please tell me why JJ Redick would be a better fit on the Orlando Magic then a Ronnie Brewer or a Rodney Carney or hell even a Mardy Collins. All I've heard you say was he has a great shot, so he will be a good player, but you haven't compared him to Brewer/Carney/Collins or said anything about why he would be a great fit for the Orlando Magic.</div>

jonboys list had how many guys that averaged 27-28 ppg AND in the toughest conference in the ncca? i am not sure, but i dont think any.

Bogut only one the naismith, not very accomplished. and what have brewer and carney or collins done. I have said a few times that i am not sure redick is the best choice, but i do think that he will be the best players out of those 4. he is leaps and bounds ahead of all of those guys in scoring ability. brewer cant shoot, and isnt great at defense by any means. he will need to learn how to play d at this level. Carney is a project. he can shoot all right, and again isnt very good at d. collins is probably the best defender, but he is a point not a two guard.

so accordingly to you, the magic need a defensive stopper at the two. why dont you just get a free agent or resign stevenson to start there, so jameer can play. and then have jj coming off the bench and scoring plenty (another thing you guys need). stevenson is already much better at d than any of those other guys that you want to pick. jj is ten times the scorer of any of those guys as well. to me its a win win for you. and as i said before. how many number 11 picks start thier first year?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">jonboys list had how many guys that averaged 27-28 ppg AND in the toughest conference in the ncca? i am not sure, but i dont think any.

Bogut only one the naismith, not very accomplished. and what have brewer and carney or collins done. I have said a few times that i am not sure redick is the best choice, but i do think that he will be the best players out of those 4. he is leaps and bounds ahead of all of those guys in scoring ability. brewer cant shoot, and isnt great at defense by any means. he will need to learn how to play d at this level. Carney is a project. he can shoot all right, and again isnt very good at d. collins is probably the best defender, but he is a point not a two guard.

so accordingly to you, the magic need a defensive stopper at the two. why dont you just get a free agent or resign stevenson to start there, so jameer can play. and then have jj coming off the bench and scoring plenty (another thing you guys need). stevenson is already much better at d than any of those other guys that you want to pick. jj is ten times the scorer of any of those guys as well. to me its a win win for you. and as i said before. how many number 11 picks start thier first year?</div>

No it didn't include guys that put up 27-28 pts in the ACC. This was still the list for leading scorers in the big conferences, what Redick was the last 2 years, so leading a great league in scoring doesn't automatically make you a great NBA player. For being the best conference, they didn't have any of the Elite 8 teams. They were a weak conference this year in comparison to previous years with only 4 tourney teams. They were definetely top heavy, but they had some extremely weak teams.

That was pretty much my point. What has Brewer or Carney done, nothing. People draft on potential not necessarily the greatness of their college career.

No we don't need a defensive stopper. We need someone who can help Jameer create shots for other players, while being able to play defense and still being able to make plays when he has to, which is exactly what Ronnie Brewer is. We aren't going to do anything in FA because we will likely have around 14-15 million dollars for next year(including this years draft pick). If we sign someone to the MLE this year then we wouldn't be able to max anyone the following year. So that's why we have to build through the draft this year. We could sign someone to the LLE probably, but not many LLE's are brought in to start. Stevenson wants to leave. Right now if we just draft JJ, here is our depth at the wing.... Hedo Turkoglu, Grant Hill, JJ Redick and possibly Trevor Ariza(although I heard we weren't really thinking about matching a deal that he gets). So we would have to start Grant Hill and give him a lot of minutes. If we drafted Ronnie Brewer, he is extremely versatile, he can play the PG, SG, SF, so that gives us a better option. We don't need just a defensive stopper, we need someone who can get himself involved in the offense to get the others involved.

So tell me, who do you think would be more effective in a system where he is the 4th or 5th option, JJ Redick or Ronnie Brewer? I say that it is Ronnie Brewer no doubt. JJ Redick is better suited when he gets plays called for him, if he is the 4th or 5th option, he won't get many plays called for him, while Ronnie Brewer doesn't need plays called for him to be effective. He is actually a much better defender than you give him credit for. No he's not at Stevenson's level, but he is a much better offensive threat then Stevenson was. You don't have to be a good scorer to be a good offensive threat. I think you would admit that Steve Nash or Jason Kidd is a great offensive threat, despite them not scoring as much(although Nash stepped up his scoring this year). Ronnie Brewer would be a good passing threat.

btw, this is who I wanted the Magic to draft the last 3 years(when I started to really get into the draft). The first year when we drafted Reece Gaines, I wanted us to draft either Boris Diaw or Leandro Barbosa, and I really wanted us to move up and take Dwayne Wade(similar to how I am about Brandon Roy). I swear to god back then Diaw and Barbosa were the 2 that I wanted. 2004, I wanted Dwight Howard, while nearly every Magic fan wanted Emeka Okafor, looks like we made the right decision. Last year I wanted Danny Granger, who had a great 1st season. So for some reason whoever I want turns out to be a good player somewhere else, even though the majority of Magic fans criticized my choices. I don't know if it was just coincidence that that happened, just giving you my past history the last 3 years, so I'm used to the criticism of my picks and I stick by it.

 

^^good posts, i dont have many arguments for it.

 

^^good post. i dont see brewer as anything special whatsoever. carney could be pretty descent, but i dont see him as being good at defense at all. Why not get a guy like james white in the second who is more athletic and can be brought along just as good as offensively as brewer and a better defender than carney. jj will give you scoring, and white will give you that sg/sf player that you need while jj can backup the sg and maybe play some third string pg. i think that this is a much better fit. also what kind of offense do the magic run. is it princeton, flex, what? because that can affect jj's scoring ability being the 4th 5th option

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">^^good post. i dont see brewer as anything special whatsoever. carney could be pretty descent, but i dont see him as being good at defense at all. Why not get a guy like james white in the second who is more athletic and can be brought along just as good as offensively as brewer and a better defender than carney. jj will give you scoring, and white will give you that sg/sf player that you need while jj can backup the sg and maybe play some third string pg. i think that this is a much better fit. also what kind of offense do the magic run. is it princeton, flex, what? because that can affect jj's scoring ability being the 4th 5th option</div>

So you think we should use our lottery pick as a bench player, while drafting our starter in the same position in the 2nd round? Doesn't make too much sense to me. I do like James White though, I really wish he woulda stayed on the Gators, he's a freak of nature with his athletic ability. He's still extremely raw.

The thing that I like most about Brewer is that he elevates the play of his teammates. Just because he's not a good shooter doesn't mean he's a bad player. He is a good defender, very aggressive. He had 2.6 steals a game last year. He plays bigger than his size. Also we have always wanted a big PG, his versatility is a huge plus. He's not flashy, but he does everything well(except shooting, but he's still a good scorer). I don't know why more people aren't talking about him. Basically his only weakness is his shooting form and it's not like it's that big of a deal, because he still put up 18.4 ppg against the best tournament conference, the SEC!

I don't know about Carney, sure he will be fun to watch, but he makes so many bonehead plays and forces shots. His ceiling is way higher than Brewer, but he could be one of the biggest busts and he's the type of player that could stunt Dwight, Darko and Jameer's growth with his horrible shot selection and not giving them the ball. Ronnie Brewer will give the people the ball, plus play good defense. Carney seems to have a really big ego, while Brewer just wants to win, he doesn't mind not being the scorer(which he wouldn't be in Orlando), which I think Carney will mind not getting his fair share of shots. I just don't see JJ or Carney fitting into our system like Ronnie Brewer would.

How many games have you seen Ronnie Brewer play? I'll be honest with you, I've definetely seen Brewer more than Carney and probably about the same as JJ and while JJ might be the better pro, I would much rather pick Brewer to be on my team because he fills up the stat sheet, rather than just the points column.

My perfect draft if we stay at 11 and Brandon Roy is gone(which is pretty much inevitable) is...

11- Ronnie Brewer
41- Paul Davis
44- Allan Ray

 

I have only seen brewer like 4-5 times, and he wasnt a shut down defender at all, he gambled a lot and at the college level got a lot of steals. like i said earlier, nobody starts as a rookie, especially from the eleventh pick. and do you not know what kind of offense the magic run? (i am curious)

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">I have only seen brewer like 4-5 times, and he wasnt a shut down defender at all, he gambled a lot and at the college level got a lot of steals. like i said earlier, nobody starts as a rookie, especially from the eleventh pick. and do you not know what kind of offense the magic run? (i am curious)</div>

Honestly, I have no idea. We do like to do a lot of pick and rolls, but I'm not too sure what the offense is actually called.

Well someone that we draft this year will start for us at SG, with Deshawn Stevenson leaving, unless we bank on Grant Hill to start at SF and Hedo Turkoglu at SG, which would be an awful idea. We need to not give him many minutes so that he can play more games and maybe even be ready for the playoff run.

When did I ever say Ronnie Brewer is or will ever be a shutdown defender? He is a good defender though. Good and shutdown are different. We don't necessarily need a shutdown defender.

For the last time, this is the criteria for the Orlando Magic's SG position...
1. A good defender(doesn't have to be a great or shutdown defender). We just don't need him to be a defensive liability.
2. Someone who doesn't have to score to be effective and likes to do the dirty work.
3. Someone who elevates their teammates game.
4. Plays within the offense and doesn't force shots.
5. Preferably a good 3 point shot(but that's just a bonus).

Ronnie Brewer has the 1st 4(and it's not like he's really that bad of a 3 pt shooter) and JJ Redick has the 4th and 5th one. So in the checklist I would definetely put Ronnie Brewer ahead of JJ Redick. Plus Brewer can play 3 positions, whereas Redick can play one.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly, I have no idea. We do like to do a lot of pick and rolls, but I'm not too sure what the offense is actually called.

Well someone that we draft this year will start for us at SG, with Deshawn Stevenson leaving, unless we bank on Grant Hill to start at SF and Hedo Turkoglu at SG, which would be an awful idea. We need to not give him many minutes so that he can play more games and maybe even be ready for the playoff run.

When did I ever say Ronnie Brewer is or will ever be a shutdown defender? He is a good defender though. Good and shutdown are different. We don't necessarily need a shutdown defender.

For the last time, this is the criteria for the Orlando Magic's SG position...
1. A good defender(doesn't have to be a great or shutdown defender). We just don't need him to be a defensive liability.
2. Someone who doesn't have to score to be effective and likes to do the dirty work.
3. Someone who elevates their teammates game.
4. Plays within the offense and doesn't force shots.
5. Preferably a good 3 point shot(but that's just a bonus).

Ronnie Brewer has the 1st 4(and it's not like he's really that bad of a 3 pt shooter) and JJ Redick has the 4th and 5th one. So in the checklist I would definetely put Ronnie Brewer ahead of JJ Redick. Plus Brewer can play 3 positions, whereas Redick can play one.</div>

I know you didnt say he was a shut down. but if he cant shut down college players, how can he contain pros in his rookie season. and James White fits the bill perfectly and so does someone that would cost you only half of you MLE. redick will give you any amazing scorer from the bench which is highly needed. And a pick and roll style will give redick tons of shooting possibilities.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">I know you didnt say he was a shut down. but if he cant shut down college players, how can he contain pros in his rookie season. and James White fits the bill perfectly and so does someone that would cost you only half of you MLE. redick will give you any amazing scorer from the bench which is highly needed. And a pick and roll style will give redick tons of shooting possibilities.</div>

Who says he didn't shutdown college players? He was a pretty damn good defender at Arkansas. I'd rather have the Preseason SEC POY who put up damn good numbers last year and led a mediocre team into the tournament then someone who is extremely inconsistent. Brewer basically put up the same numbers every night, so you know exactly what he can do. James White, you have no idea what you are gonna get out of him any given night and he didn't even prove anything in college, what makes you think he can prove himself in the pros? Ronnie Brewer dominated the ball way more than James White but still had less turnovers than White. Brewer had a 1.5:1 Assist per turnover ratio, while White had .87:1 Assist to Turnover ratio. Also James White definetely isn't as versatile as Ronnie Brewer. Despite being a "mediocre shooter" he still averaged more points than James White. Oh and did I mention he made the tournament, while James White watched it from home.

I do'nt think James White fits what we want in a SG. Whenever you avg more turnovers than assists, you definetely don't fit #3. I wouldn't consider him that good of a defender either. (at least compared to Brewer)

 

Redick Cancels Magic Workout

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Florida Today - Duke pair J.J. Redick and Shelden Williams have both cancelled private workouts with the Orlando Magic , according to a report published in Florida Today.

Redick was scheduled to work out for the team on Wednesday, with agent Arn Tellem informing the Magic that the guard was suffering from a sore back.

Just Saturday, when Redick was at Disney World for his NBA-mandated physical and skills testing, he said "I've definitely circled that (Magic workout) on my calendar and I've looked forward to working out for them for a few weeks now."

What might concern the Magic now is that Redick could have already secured a guarantee that he will be selected in the top 10 of the June 28 NBA Draft.</div>
Source

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">Redick Cancels Magic Workout


Source</div>

Whew. Hopefully they both have a guarantee and we don't trade up to get them.

 

Also, Redick was arrested last night: http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...6772#post636772

This is really shocking.

 

So now I would not mind getting him in the second round.

 

well another reason we shoyuldnt draft him is because he's a drunk driver. lol what a dumbass