Wilt's 100 really better than Kobe's 81?

I used to think that Kobe's was better but after reading Runs post I really think Wilt's was much harder. As Run said it is too easy for gaurds to get points these days, they dont even need to shoot. If Lebron or Wade drove every posession they had, then 80 points would be easy for them. That's why Iverson is such a good scorer. He's fearless and doesnt care if he gets bruised up, all he does is drive, drive, drive.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azn_iverson:</div><div class="quote_post">I used to think that Kobe's was better but after reading Runs post I really think Wilt's was much harder. As Run said it is too easy for gaurds to get points these days, they dont even need to shoot. If Lebron or Wade drove every posession they had, then 80 points would be easy for them. That's why Iverson is such a good scorer. He's fearless and doesnt care if he gets bruised up, all he does is drive, drive, drive.</div>

Um no that's a crazy claim. It's not possible to just drive and get to 80 points. Kobe also has a jumpshot believe it or not (about 17 jumpshots were made that game including the three-pointers; here's a link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=qRikrksH8es ). RunBJM uses a combination of reasons to discredit Kobe. Which I don't have a problem with because he at least appears to be somewhat objective. However, one doesn't have to disrespect Kobe's accomplishment to the degree you stated.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">Only one other dominant big when Wilt played? Ever heard of Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Bob Lanier? Any of those players would be a top 2 center in the league today (behind Shaq), as a whole the competition then was alot better than it is today.</div>

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, and Bob Lanier did not play in Wilt's 36+ PPG seasons. As a whole the competition was better, but not during Wilt's best years. Look it up.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well you better read up then, here's a little tid bit from NBA.com's summary of his career:

"In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever.. I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls...

Of course, Chamberlain didn't retire. He simply endured the punishment and learned to cope with it, bulking up his muscles to withstand the constant shoving, elbowing and body checks other teams used against him."



Did you watch the finals this year? Prime example of how guards can't be stopped, same with LeBron vs. the Pistons and LeBron and Gilbert basically playing 1 on 1 in their series in the playoffs. I guess you're used to it by now from watching Kobe all season but I think any other fan will agree that there's no challenge for athletic guards who can get in the lane and make FTs.
</div>

Kobe got 41 points off of jumpshots which has nothing to do with the lane etc. He is just a beast.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
That was my point, Stern is making a bunch of rule changes so that the game is higher scoring because the scorers can't do it themselves. The Showtime Lakers and Michael Jordan and all those high scoring teams could score even with handchecking and without all these new lameass fouls that Stern has instituted. Scorers today can't keep up with the defenders thats why they've basically taken any and all advantages that defnders once had away so that the NBA will be high scoring again. To sum it up, the NBA game is, like you say, lower scoring today, which is why Stern is changing rules and the way games are officiated so that the game will be higher scoring.</div>


By this point, one can see your arguement has been watered down. You don't have to take so much credit away from Kobe, considering what I stated.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">Um no that's a crazy claim. It's not possible to just drive and get to 80 points. Kobe also has a jumpshot believe it or not (about 17 jumpshots were made that game including the three-pointers; here's a link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=qRikrksH8es ). RunBJM uses a combination of reasons to discredit Kobe. Which I don't have a problem with because he at least appears to be somewhat objective. However, one doesn't have to disrespect Kobe's accomplishment to the degree you stated.
</div>

Thats not really a crazy claim. Maybe I was wrong to say its easy to get 80 points if you kept driving, but it is true. Wade and Lebron have such explosive first steps that most defenders can't keep up with. If they were to drive every posession I think its quite possible to get 80 points at least once or twice a season. When you drive you don't even have to get it in, like Run said you can just drive straight into an interior defender, get the foul and thrive at the line. All you really need to be a successful scorer driving, is quick feet, the ability to handle the ball, and the ability to drive strong which both Wade and Lebron can do. Thats why AI is so successful; he drives alot and if he didnt take stupid shots and drove with all the touches he gets, he could possible average about 40-50 PPG. Sure Kobe took jumpshots but he had alot of points at the line. Without the points at the line, how many points would he have, only around 60. Run BJM wasnt disrespecting Kobe's accomplishment; we all agree that it was an amazing preformance, hes just trying to get at the point that Wilts 100 > Kobe's 81.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azn_iverson:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats not really a crazy claim. Maybe I was wrong to say its easy to get 80 points if you kept driving, but it is true. Wade and Lebron have such explosive first steps that most defenders can't keep up with. If they were to drive every posession I think its quite possible to get 80 points at least once or twice a season. When you drive you don't even have to get it in, like Run said you can just drive straight into an interior defender, get the foul and thrive at the line. All you really need to be a successful scorer driving, is quick feet, the ability to handle the ball, and the ability to drive strong which both Wade and Lebron can do. Thats why AI is so successful, he drives alot and if he didnt take stupid shots and drove with all the touches he gets he could possible average about 40-50 PPG. Sure Kobe took jumpshots but he had alot of points at the line. Without the points at the line, how many points would he have, only around 60. Run BJM wasnt disrespected Kobe's accomplishment; we all agree that it was an amazing preformance, hes just trying to get at the point that Wilts 100 > Kobe's 81.</div>

"only around 60"

Ok... Works for me. I'd take that, lol. And no you did not prove your case on them being able to score 80 by driving. That and other things you say will remain a paper philosophy until proven otherwise. AI's career PER is not as impressive as other players mentioned in this thread. You saying he can average 40-50 PPG is just funny, because his efficiency per ball possession would be horrible (the only way for him to do that is with more jumpshots). I liked your previous post better, because your latter claims are just comical.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">"only around 60"

Ok... Works for me. I'd take that, lol. And no you did not prove your case on them being able to score 80 by driving. That and other things you say will remain a paper philosophy until proven otherwise. AI's PER is not that impressive (when compared to most people mentioned in this thread), you saying he can average 40-50 PPG is just funny, because his efficiency per ball possession would be horrible. I liked your previous post better, because your latter claims are just comical.</div>

60 is a lot less than 100, with 60 you can't even compare that to 100. Not sure if you watch much basketball if you don't see that its possible to score 80 points by driving. Do you not watch Wade or Lebron? The majority of their points are earned by driving or at the line. Do you not see that its almost effortless for them to get into the lane? You can't deny the fact that gaurds get into the lane just by blasting passed their defender. Comical? If you don't understand my point then that's comical. You can't deny facts man, AI right now is getting around 30 ppg by driving and shooting, if AI drove and got to the FT line EVERY posession instead of forcing up shots you dont think he would get 40-50 ppg?!

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azn_iverson:</div><div class="quote_post">60 is a lot less than 100, with 60 you can't even compare that to 100.</div>
I don't care if Kobe's game is more impressive or not. "Just don't hate", is my main message to this thread. And I won't give you that point anyway. It was 81, not 60.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Not sure if you watch much basketball if you don't see that its possible to score 80 points by driving.</div>

Then why hasn't it been done? I think you're the one that hasn't been watching much basketball. You should try to stick to the facts more closely.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Do you not watch Wade or Lebron? The majority of their points are earned by driving or at the line. Do you not see that its almost effortless for them to get into the lane? You can't deny the fact that gaurds get into the lane just by blasting passed their defender. Comical? If you don't understand my point then that's comical. You can't deny facts man, AI right now is getting around 30 ppg by driving and shooting, if AI drove and got to the FT line EVERY posession instead of forcing up shots you dont think he would get 40-50 ppg?!</div>

Well here's the thing, he DOESN'T have the skill to get to the line EVERY possession. What are you talking about? "Facts"? You're crazy. Do you realize how many times they would have to get to the line to average 40 ppg? You think anyone can get to the line as much as they want. Well no they can't. Why the hell does a jumpshot exist then? It is not possible to get to the line as much as you claim.

Or another POV to this argument:

If they could get to the line that many more times (yeah right), so can Kobe, and many other stars. Please guy, just stop talking about free throws like that.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azn_iverson:</div><div class="quote_post">I used to think that Kobe's was better but after reading Runs post I really think Wilt's was much harder. As Run said it is too easy for gaurds to get points these days, they dont even need to shoot. If Lebron or Wade drove every posession they had, then 80 points would be easy for them. That's why Iverson is such a good scorer. He's fearless and doesnt care if he gets bruised up, all he does is drive, drive, drive.</div>was that a knock on wade and lebron? I would think AI should'dve been the top on your list over LeBron.

Then going on to say AI's great for that same reason.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">Level of competition is irrelevant since both Kobe and Wilt accomplished their games against terrible defensive teams. Moo had mentioned that Shaq played against dominant players and Wilt did not, and to that you can also respond that Shaq wasn't as successful until all of them except Duncan were out of the league.


Kobe is a great player/scorer/shooter, I won't take that away from him but he still got a quarter of his 81 points from the line. To be honest I'm surprised it wasn't more so I'll give that to him but its not like he was being challenged all that much by the Raptors.

It's not just Kobe I'm talking about; LeBron, Arenas, Wade, Ginobli, Parker all do the same thing. I call it as I see it just like everyone (other than Heat fans) called Wade and the NBA Finals officials out after the Finals. Same for LeBron vs. the Pistons. Yeah, I probably do discredit Kobe alot more than I should but it's just exaggeration to get the point across.

Today's NBA game is altered to help guards score while the NBA in Wilt's day was altered to make it difficult for him. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way but I'm calling it as I see it.</div>

Ok but you still posted a misleading fact. Kareem, Wes Unseld, etc, did not play during the years of Wilt's 50/44/36+ PPG seasons.

They both played against garbage, agreed. But so do most players that score a lot of points. Anyway, I am more impressed by the Mavericks game.

 

Kobe got all of his 81 points on fast breaks and open jumpshots against a terrible defense who gave up pretty much after half time, so dont talk about it like he tore apart the Pistons. Especially if you're going to say Wilt had it easy for his 100.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe got all of his 81 points on fast breaks and open jumpshots against a terrible defense who gave up pretty much after half time, so dont talk about it like he tore apart the Pistons. Especially if you're going to say Wilt had it easy for his 100.</div>

Who are you talking to? Obviously not me because I made no reference to him playing against the Pistons. They both had it easy, so what is your point (a lot of people play against bad defenses when they have a career night)? What the hell do I care about who was more impressive? All I care about is stoping haters that lack reason.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qRikrksH8es

Open jumpshots and fastbreaks? You need to watch the game again because that is not how he scored most of his points. The Raptors were in most of the game, including a large portion of the fourth quarter. Kobe could have pounded the Mavericks for 80 if he wanted to.

 

Kobe did not get the majority of his points on fast breaks or open jumpshots.

As for open jumpers, some of the shots he was taking would be questionable had he not made them. But he was just feeling it that day and when that happens just let him be.

The only thing that was true was they both played against bad defenses.

 

Go ahead NTC187 and tell me the times in the video that all these open jumpshots appear. I saw 2-3 fast breaks. Lol, Wilt wouldn't even be able to make an open three point shot.

 

Hold up, haters? Last i checked 100 is more than 81, so you are the one that has to do all the explaining, people arent hating by saying that 100 is a bigger number than 81. Plus with the rule changes, i'd say that even if kobe scored 100, i'd take wilt's accomplishment over it. As stated before, wilt got beat up night in night out. Kobe drives and pretends to take contact, and he gets two free throws. Another amazing thing is how well wilt hit his ft's. He sucked at ft's, but that night no one could stop him. I really dont see how people can just throw out wilt's numbers because they were way back then. He played against other greats who couldnt come close to his numbers. I know, more possessions back then, but still, its not enough to make 81 more than 100.

 

Aiight, I aplogize, I was wrong, however he did make alot of his baskets uncontested and on free throws. Looking back at that video though, I still cant believe he actually scored that much, was an amazing feat regardless of who it was against or how he did it.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">Hold up, haters? Last i checked 100 is more than 81, so you are the one that has to do all the explaining, people arent hating by saying that 100 is a bigger number than 81. Plus with the rule changes, i'd say that even if kobe scored 100, i'd take wilt's accomplishment over it. As stated before, wilt got beat up night in night out. Kobe drives and pretends to take contact, and he gets two free throws. Another amazing thing is how well wilt hit his ft's. He sucked at ft's, but that night no one could stop him. I really dont see how people can just throw out wilt's numbers because they were way back then. He played against other greats who couldnt come close to his numbers. I know, more possessions back then, but still, its not enough to make 81 more than 100.</div>

Wow have you read this thread? No I was referring to earlier posts. Most of the posts have been intelligent. Your first sentence proves your laziness. Do I have to spell it out for you again? I don't care who was more impressive, just don't go around saying things like azn_iverson about unlimited free throws, lmao.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">You do go around insulting people like a jackass because they don't agree with you though.</div>

Where are these insults? I clarify people with facts, you need to get over it. Maybe if you would do some more fact checking you'd stop writing sensitive posts. Hooray for Wilt, just don't aimlessly take away from Kobe's accomplishment. Now if you present valid reasons to minimize his glory, good for you.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Yeah, I'm not really trying to discredit Kobe as much as put it in perspective for everyone else. Like TFP said, the people on Wilt's side in this debate should be the one's calling the other side haters. 100 > 81 any way you slice it, its not even that close. It really is impossible to compare the two games though, we're just making alot of educated guesses and assumptions about which player had it harder.</div>

I have no problem with this though, this seems like an valid point.