Wojnarowski: Sources: Bulls VP Paxson shoved Del Negro

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by Alan Shore, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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  2. JayJohnstone

    JayJohnstone Active Member

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    What was his competition for Bulls' player of the month? Fizer was terrible on D. I do think he could be a very good 7th man prior to screwing up his knee. I will not argue about a good 6th man.

    Paxson has had so, so, so, so many screw-ups so much larger than anything related to Fizer. Bye, John!

    p.s. Now if Paxson had drafted Fizer, that would be another story.
     
  3. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    It's hard for me to not to notice that we were playing pretty listlessly the last few games, and then we came out and really kicked ass tonight once this all came out. Probably just coincidence, but it's certainly a nice change from putting up 74 points against the Bucks.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I think what really hurt was Fizer was involved in trade rumors both seasons he was injured. His first injury was shortly before the trade deadline. The next season, he would have been an expiring contract to trade...

    His competition? Curry, Chandler, Rose, JWill, Yell, Crawford

    Check out Fizer's pages on 82games.com:
    http://82games.com/02CHI8C.HTM
    http://82games.com/03CHI14C.HTM
     
  5. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    So to recap:

    Vinny's people twice leaked a story to cover for the fact that either A) he's a fucking retard who didn't understand that he could play Noah more minutes, or B) a fucking asshole who didn't play Noah to spite management and sabotage his team. The way Vinny has coached this year, the team is clearly winning in spite of him as much as because of him. Who wouldn't want to kick Vinny's ass at this point.

    And if anything, KC was holding the story to protect the team, or more likely Paxson, a guy who's going to be around a lot longer than Vinny and a lot more worthy of respect, or perhaps fear.
     
  6. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    He was moderately bad and might have turned into ok if he'd gotten a clue and hadn't been ruined. But oh well.

    I'm more interested in the dynamic with Noah. On the one hand, I'd sort of applaud Pax for protecting Noah from himself and the coach. If I had any faith some sort of clear cut rule had been put in place.

    But default reaction is everything with the Bulls is a muddled clusterfuck, so Paxson probably mumbled something about not playing Noah too much, and then got mad when VDN didn't interpret that with crystal clarity.

    I could, of course, be wrong, but Paxson has had anger issues in the past while Vinny doesn't seem to be one to flout a clearly specified rule regarding a player's health.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Where did this "vinnie leaked the story" once or twice bullshit come from?

    Or the KC held it back out of respect for Vinnie?

    Are we making this up as we go along?
     
  8. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Well, Gar even conceded that during the Nets game, he actually called up Paxson to get permission to play Noah more. So A) can't be right. Vinny clearly understood he was not to play Noah more. But he wanted to, so he sent Hunter off to beg Gar, and Gar called up to Beg Pax, who eventually gave a somewhat unclear OK. How long this process took, and the clarity of the answer (especially i the context of Paxson's violent behavior), limited how much Vinny could even consider playing Noah. By the time he got his answer, did it still matter? How clear was the answer?
     
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The Tribune's take:

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...bulls-playoffs--20100413,0,617080,full.column

    Vinny Del Negro, John Paxson parting won’t be such sweet sorrow

    Whatever road Chicago Bulls management takes to settle things, it will be a mess

    David Haugh

    In the Wake of the News

    10:07 PM CDT, April 13, 2010

    Inside Vinny Del Negro's office March 30 after a frustrating loss to the Suns, the differences between John Paxson and Del Negro became irreconcilable. A fight ensued. And Paxson's Chicago legacy was stained.

    The Del Negro-Paxson relationship already was beyond repair. This gave it a time of death and a paper trail.

    How many pink slips will it ultimately produce?

    Sure, the details are irresistible. A source Tuesday night confirmed Yahoo! Sports' version that Paxson grabbed Del Negro's tie and poked him in the chest because he was upset Joakim Noah played more minutes than management wanted because of Noah's plantar fasciitis.

    Paxson, according to an independent source, also called Del Negro selfish and had to be restrained. There was the cursing and yelling often overheard when men act like Neanderthals. A more detailed blow-by-blow account may emerge. The Bulls were pretty busy beating the Celtics 101-93 to stay in control of the East's final playoff spot.

    But as juicy as the narrative is, all that really matters is this. The top basketball executive for the Bulls physically attacked a subordinate. Forget that it was a subordinate Paxson no longer liked or respected. Forget how much we all love Paxson.

    Professionals aren't judged by feelings. They are evaluated by actions.

    The loose cannon at the Berto Center is kept in the office of the executive vice president of operations. This wasn't a case of a coach going after a player in the heat of the battle. This wasn't two teammates letting their frustration boil over into the locker room after a hotly contested game. This was two guys in suits squaring off over policy.

    In sports, they may call that boys being boys. In many places outside the arena, they may call it assault. Someone familiar with what happened already has.


    It was deemed a serious enough altercation that the Bulls organization hired attorneys in the days that followed to obtain witness statements from assistant coaches. It was the type of behavior no corporate entity can tolerate without taking some sort of disciplinary action.

    "It's an organizational issue that is being handled internally," a team spokesman said.

    Whatever that means.

    As loyal as Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf is to employees, he is unlikely to fire Paxson over this. Nor should he. Paxson has served the organization long enough and well enough to classify this as an isolated incident.

    No, Paxson shouldn't lose his job over this, but he loses whatever faith anybody had left in him to lead this team forward with any level-headedness.

    Order an unpaid vacation, anger management and counseling. Do whatever Fortune 500 companies do to executives who are wound too tightly and let that affect their job.

    The Bulls' dirty little secret is out. John Paxson's a hothead, nothing like the calm, cool player Chicago saw on the court. Bulls employees have known it. Those around the team have known it. Now Chicago and the rest of the NBA know it too.

    If you think Paxson beat long odds two years ago when the Bulls won the lottery and the right to make the No. 1 overall pick, consider the impossible trick he just pulled off. He made Del Negro a sympathetic figure.

    Del Negro deserves credit for not letting the fight escalate and keeping the matter private. It gives his next employer the impression that Del Negro can handle the worst kind of internal strife, when the boss strikes back.

    Just the same, it wasn't the first time Del Negro's office was the scene of confrontation involving the coach. According to a source, Del Negro loudly challenged former Bull Tyrus Thomas to a fight after Thomas barged in demanding more playing time.

    This officially makes the Bulls a mess.

    Nobody is naïve enough to believe Paxson's attack didn't influence Del Negro's decision-making process concerning Noah's playing time last Friday in New Jersey. Del Negro blamed a miscommunication with management for Noah playing only 12 seconds after the final minute of regulation in a double-overtime loss to the Nets.

    He can call it miscommunication if he wants. I'll call it intimidation.

    Despite it all, the playoffs remain a possibility. The players who have played hard and competed while this basketball soap opera has unfolded in front of them deserve the postseason as a reward. It would say a lot about their mettle. It also would make a strong statement about Del Negro to every GM about to fill a head-coaching vacancy.

    But whenever this season ends, whether it's Wednesday night in Charlotte or after a Cavaliers' first-round sweep, the divorce between Vinny and Pax must come quickly. It doesn't have to be amicable.

    Why start now?
     
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    "Del Negro deserves credit for not letting the fight escalate and keeping the matter private. It gives his next employer the impression that Del Negro can handle the worst kind of internal strife, when the boss strikes back."
     
  11. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    Pretty sure he got the answer before overtime if he called him at halftime, but it would be nice to know for sure.

    And the minutes limit seemed pretty clear cut based on everything I've read.
     
  12. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    Who would have leaked it if it wasn't VDN? Pax? Anybody else would be stupid to leak it.
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The players.

    The Tribune story indicates Vinnie wasn't the source. It says "A SOURCE" (meaning one person) confirmed the story. It also calls it an "independent source."

    It could be someone in the NBA office proper.
     
  14. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    "If you think Paxson beat long odds two years ago when the Bulls won the lottery and the right to make the No. 1 overall pick, consider the impossible trick he just pulled off. He made Del Negro a sympathetic figure."

    You and Vinny's mom might be the only two people who think Vinny is a good coach and didn't leak this story.
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...lls-celtics-chicago--20100413,0,2508394.story

    Del Negro, Paxson spat comes to fore

    Bulls coach and vice president had vocal, physical confrontation over Joakim Noah’s playing time

    By K.C. Johnson, Tribune reporter

    The Bulls have hired independent lawyers to investigate a physical altercation between executive vice president of basketball operations John Paxson and coach Vinny Del Negro, sources confirmed.

    The incident took place after the March 30 home loss to the Suns and centered on Del Negro exceeding, for the second time, a medically imposed minutes limit on Joakim Noah, who has battled plantar fasciitis.

    Yahoo! Sports first reported the story. Del Negro wouldn't comment and a Bulls spokesman said it's an organizational issue that will be handled internally.

    According to sources, Paxson came to the doorway of Del Negro's office after Del Negro played Noah 27 minutes, 5 seconds — or 2:05 more than allowed. Del Negro also exceeded Noah's minutes limit during a Feb. 26 home overtime victory over the Trail Blazers, and Noah missed the next 10 games.

    According to sources, an angry Paxson began to confront Del Negro vocally, which prompted Del Negro to rise from his chair and walk toward Paxson. At this point, sources said, Paxson grabbed Del Negro by his tie and shoved him.

    Several players said they heard the vocal altercation and later learned details of the physical aspect. Three players, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the players vowed not to let the incident distract them.

    Sources said Paxson called Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf in the direct aftermath of the incident to tell his boss what occurred.

    Sources also said Del Negro spent the next few days after the incident trying to gather written statements from organizational members.

    The incident speaks to the deteriorated relationship between management and Del Negro, whose future job status has been an ongoing storyline all season. During widespread speculation claiming Del Negro would be fired any day during the Bulls' December struggles, the Tribune reported Del Negro would finish the season but not be brought back for the third and final guaranteed season of his contract.

    Celtics coach Doc Rivers, a close friend of Del Negro's, defended his colleague.

    "I think it'd be too bad," Rivers said, when asked how he would feel if Del Negro were fired. "I think he has done a very good job. They took us to seven games with no (Kevin) Garnett. The best player in that series for the Bulls ( Ben Gordon) isn't on the team anymore.

    "I think expectations were unrealistic, especially when you factor in all the injuries. I'm obviously biased. Vinny is better than a good friend. We've all been through it as coaches. It's tough. All you can do is coach."

    Del Negro's relationship with management has been tepid since he and his staff felt management didn't support him enough in December. In management's only public comments about Del Negro's future, general manager Gar Forman wouldn't commit to Del Negro beyond this season.

    Noah's playing time has been an ongoing issue as well. Just last Friday, the Bulls endured criticism for a miscommunication during a double overtime loss to the Nets at New Jersey.

    In that game, Del Negro had exceeded Noah's minutes limit of 35 slightly because no stoppage in play came until late in regulation. Del Negro then received clearance from management to exceed the limit because of the game's importance.

    But Del Negro said he worked under the impression he only could use Noah for late-game possessions and thus only played him for 12 seconds late in the first overtime. The Nets pulled away early in the second overtime.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  16. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    First, BG wasn't even close to the best player in that series, Rose was. And Vinny leaked the story, and "sources" confirmed it. If the players vowed not to let the story distract them, why would they leak it?
     
  17. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    Do you think Doc leaked it? lol...
     
  18. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    So, Paxson is upset if Noah plays too many minutes, he is upset if Noah plays too few minutes, and he figures this is a reason to assault his coach.

    VDN may be a crap coach....but Paxson comes off as a complete douchebag.
     
  19. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    I agree. Paxson hired Vinny. If anything, he should want to kick his own ass.
     
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Your opinion is quite different from the head coach of the then defending NBA Champions. He had to coach against the Bulls and design defenses against the team. If he says Gordon was our best player in the series, it surely carries more weight than your opinion.
     

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