The point still stands that some players develop at different rates, especially coming in from a foreign country, without knowing the language
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd say Olowokandi. Mostly because it was the first pick, and it was such a deep draft. 2. Mike Bibby Arizona Vancouver 3. Raef LaFrentz Kansas Denver 4. Antawn Jamison North Carolina Toronto 5. Vince Carter North Carolina Golden State 7. Jason Williams Florida Sacramento 8. Larry Hughes St Louis Philadelphia 9. Dirk Nowitzki DJK Wurzberg (Germany) Milwaukee 10. Paul Pierce Kansas Boston 11. Bonzi Wells Ball State Detroit 15. Matt Harpring Georgia Tech Orlando 17. Radislav Nesterovic Kinder Bologna (Italy) Minnesota 19. Pat Garrity Notre Dame Milwaukee 21. Ricky Davis Iowa Charlotte 22. Brian Skinner Baylor LA Clippers 23. Tyronn Lue Nebraska Denver 25. Al Harrington St Patrick's (NJ) HS Indiana 39. Rafer Alston Fresno State Milwaukee 41. Cuttino Mobley Rhode Island Houston Those players are all, IMO, better than Olowokandi. When 18 players end up better than the number one pick, it has to be the worst.</div> Rashard Lewis at #32, also. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting KICKSDADDY613:</div><div class="quote_post">Respert was diagnosed after he already feel out of the NBA. He was a bust before he left after just 4 or 5 years. I loved watching him at MSU, and yeah he could score, but he was a 6-3 2guard with no handle and couldnt play point.</div> He played while undergoing cancer treatment actually, he just let nobody know. Absolutely he is a bust, but when you consider what he went through just to get onto the court, it's hard to heap anything on him.
Olowokandi was a huge bust. Darko can't be called a bust yet...but I still think he was probably the worst of that year's lottery picks. LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh all around him... I mean come on. Even if Darko lives up to his potential, which I don't think he will, he will never be as good as LBJ, Melo, Wade, or Bosh. These guys are already some of the best in the game in their second season while Darko is just like any other European project.
I'm convinced that most NBA GM's are idiots. It is amazing how the trendy the draft has become. One year everyone is picking high school players. The high school players struggle so the next year everyone is looking for the top European projects. Those Europeans aren't adjusting at the rate that they hope so they go full circle and start drafting high school athletes again. This is all done so that the crutch of development can be used when the team is struggling, or so that they can pat themselves on the back repeatedly if/when the prospect excels. Unlike the drafts of the past, these top prospects aren't expected to come in and immediately dominate. That's why everyone went crazy over LeBron/Carmelo last season. They were the first rookies since Allen Iverson/Tim Duncan/Vince Carter to come in and actually surpass the hype. No one wants to draft seniors anymore b/c they are considered casts off when they don't immediately contribute. No one wants to hear the word develop associated with 22-23 year old rookies. I'm convinced that the biggest bust in the past decade has been Kwame Brown. His selection began the trend of unproven high school athletes being selected over the top established college athletes. He has done absolutely nothing to warrant his selection. At least the Kandi-man had some serviceable years in L.A. Brown has had trouble with the law, with his teammates, and he continues to blame Michael Jordan for stunting his development. He represents everything that is wrong with the NBA. Great physical attributes, no work ethic, no desire, but feels entitled to a lucrative contract extension. He continues to get an opportunity and has done nothing to suggest that he is worthy of the minutes that he gets. Darko hasn't had the chance to fail. All Brown has shown in his four years of playing is his ability to fail. He was the first pick in the draft and I firmly believe that his next contract will be his last.
^ I fully agree with Iron Shiek on this one. Kwame has been nothing but a burden ever since the day he has been drafted. He has failed repeatedly, and when he starts to show at least shades of improvement and we begin to think that maybe he has finally trying to be just a little bit more, he drops down to his previous level. Brown has brought doubt once again to high school players going high in the draft. He has put no effort into his game what so ever through out the years of playing in NBA. But nonetheless he reinstates how sure he is that he needs a big number on his cheque. He has blamed about everyone but himself for how he has fared in the NBA so far. And the truth is that even in his contract year he will still remain to lazy and unmotivated to play better, he is just going to assume that the 1st overall pick needs a contract no matter how he plays. The NBA has seriously backed out of college seniors, some times even juniors. The problem is they are unsure how they will fare in the league. The draft is also one of the most anticipated events. A bad draft pick, like Kwame can scar a franchies for life, resulting in low attendance, and loss of jobs by the management. That is why the draft is so hard for many teams. There could be players that seem like a sure pick, but they dont come through. A jump from highschool to NBA is very difficult to adjust to, thats why the risk of taking a high schooler is very high, its hard for college players to adjust to NBA schedule, but for a high schooler its even harder. Sure we did have Kobe, KG, Tmac, Amare, and LeBron, but we also had Kwame Browns and such. Does anyone even know who Ousmane Cisse, or James Lang? Its also a risk to take European players because its a whoe different game over there. Its a risk taking the players from Europe because you never know how they are going to adjust to rules, the game, the more physical play, and ofcourse the language which also plays a big part. And this is why i welcome the fact that David Stern is thinking about a true minor league To recap: 1. Expand the draft to four rounds. 2. Abolish guaranteed contracts for rookies. 3. Expand the NBDL to (for example, 15 teams) and let two NBA clubs use each team as a feeder team. 4. Players with more than 4 years League experience arent eligible for the NBDL. This way: 1. A larger draft means a larger pool of players, hence more seniors will get a look in at the NBA. The hardest part of making the L, is getting an opportunity. If kids wanna declare and be drafted on "potential" they can be, but with no guaranteed contract they run the risk of not getting paid if they get cut because they dont make the grade. 2. Players not on the active NBA roster of 12 but contracted to a franchise are eligible for NBDL games as long as they dont have more than 4 years experience in the NBA. That way, the NBDL IS a DEVELOPMENT League. 3. A player that is performing well for their NBDL club can be called up for NBA duty by the franchise that owns their rights. 4. Guys that dont have guaranteed dollars will (in theory) work a lot harder to improve themselves and EARN a guaranteed deal. Straight from HS players (Ebi, Dorell Wright) and Euroforwards (Milicic, Tskitishvili) will get MEANINGFUL GAME BURN against players THEIR OWN AGE and teams can evaluate them TRULY without relying on "practice" reports, and decided whether or not they are worth keeping or cutting for NOTHING. 5. NBA teams can draft college seniors that have four years of game experience and use THEM on their depth charts instead of 18 years olds that have no experience. The NBA game doesnt suffer because people know how to play. Kids still get "on the job training" and are paid to play as LONG AS THEY HAVE THE DESIRE AND THE GAME.
problem The problem with the proposed minor league described by LakeTown above is that there are two teams for every one minor league team. Teams wouldnt want to send real talents that need development down to their minor league teams where they dont control the coaches / playing time. Both teams are going to want their players to get more time so talented projects are still going to end up on the NBA benches learning from the NBA coahces.
Yeah they will, but also it will give other people something more. I agree that you do want to give your prospect development from a NBA coach, but you can't have him just sit on the bench the whole season, i mean do give him at least 5 minutes to play, if not then send him to the minors for the rest of the year, let him get some playing time. In the summer pull him back and work with him. What i like about it is how it is going to affect european players. I mean its a hard adjustment to the game already the way it is. A coupple of games in the Minor League, at least a coupple, will at least give them an image of how the game is played. Because here its more physical, the rules vary from the ones over the ocean, and many little aspects like the shot clock shorter by 6 seconds, and the 4 quarters of 12 minutes instead of 2 halfs of 20.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">The problem with the proposed minor league described by LakeTown above is that there are two teams for every one minor league team. Teams wouldnt want to send real talents that need development down to their minor league teams where they dont control the coaches / playing time. Both teams are going to want their players to get more time so talented projects are still going to end up on the NBA benches learning from the NBA coahces.</div>^I really don't think that would be the case at all. Just look at minor league baseball for example. Their system is perfect in the way they develope their players in a league where they will be playing against similar competition. If there is a player that stands out among the competition he will be brought up and given a chance in the bigs. That is how almost everyone of the stars in the MLB today have been brought up. Another example would be minor league hockey. They have their farm team play against similar competition and only bring players to the league when they are deemed ready. The main thing is that players need to play and be in game shape. You can't have a rookie languish on the bench. It will only take up space on your roster and could have a negative affect on the rookies developement. If we could have a place for the Leon Smith's, Korleone Young's, and Ha Seung Jin's of the NBA then you will see two very important things happen: 1. The level of play goes up in the NBA where every player on the roster is meant to be in the league and competing at a high level. This is absolutely paramount to the problems the NBA has faced in the decreased competition in the league with teams drafting based on potential rather than talent. 2. Rookies will develope at a better rate and you will have a better gauge on which rookies will be able to compete in the NBA. If a rookie is not ready for the NBA he will still have a team to go back to in the farm team. I predict that we can see a good effort by the NBA to implement these farm teams. That is why we see the league putting more money into the NBDL and expanding their teams.
missed my point <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">^I really don't think that would be the case at all. Just look at minor league baseball for example. Their system is perfect in the way they develope their players in a league where they will be playing against similar competition. If there is a player that stands out among the competition he will be brought up and given a chance in the bigs. That is how almost everyone of the stars in the MLB today have been brought up. </div> You missed my point. Becuase the team wont have full control over who the coahces are and how much playing time their players get they wouldnt want to send potentially important players to their farm system
Olowakandi is probably the worst draft pick ever, not just in the last decade. I dont think there should be four rounds, talent really runs out after two. Rosters would hold so many players. Maybe when a lot more talent starts coming from the undrafted, not that there isnt already, then maybe they should move it to three.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">You missed my point. Becuase the team wont have full control over who the coahces are and how much playing time their players get they wouldnt want to send potentially important players to their farm system</div>I don't think control is an issue. If that were the case then the minors in hockey and baseball would have gone belly up because coaches were not able to control a players every move or playing time. The team cannot be at two places at once it's simply impossible. So that is why there is another subsidiary organization that would handle the minors. Exactly how it is done in Baseball and hockey. That is why you see St. Johns Maple Leafs (Toronto's farm hockey team) or Syracuse Bison's (Toronto's minor league baseball team). If there was a big emphasis on control over a players development than the minors (hockey and baseball) would not be as successful as they are now. You have to lose a little control, it's inevitable. AND The teams DO have the control over who they hire within the organization. Do you think they will just hire people they don't trust to get the job done right? Of course the teams would have the power to choose who they want to coach and GM. It would be probably the extent of their control on a team. Even the NBA won't have a full hand in organizing the league. It will start it off on the right foot but you won't see commissioner Stern going over basketball decisions with the minor league. They will hire the necessary people to handle the day to day operations.
not true <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think control is an issue. If that were the case then the minors in hockey and baseball would have gone belly up because coaches were not able to control a players every move or playing time. </div> Thats not true. In baseball (I really cant debate about hockey's minor league becuase I dont know about it) the management tells their minor league affiliates who to play when it comes to important players. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">AND The teams DO have the control over who they hire within the organization. Do you think they will just hire people they don't trust to get the job done right? Of course the teams would have the power to choose who they want to coach and GM. It would be probably the extent of their control on a team.</div> They do have some controll but only to a certain extent. If one of the teams wants one coach and the other team wants a different coach what happens? If one team wants a head coach who is good with big men but the other wants one who will work with guards what happens? Both teams will want maximum playing time for their players so how do they comprimise?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats not true. In baseball (I really cant debate about hockey's minor league becuase I dont know about it) the management tells their minor league affiliates who to play when it comes to important players. </div>I'm mistaken then. But you just answered your own and my response right there. Ultimately the final say will come down to GM or President of the main team. If say the Knicks want to get more time for a certain player they have drafted then they will tell the minor league affiliate to do so because they are the final say in who gets to play and when. Like the boss giving orders to the employee. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They do have some controll but only to a certain extent. If one of the teams wants one coach and the other team wants a different coach what happens? If one team wants a head coach who is good with big men but the other wants one who will work with guards what happens? Both teams will want maximum playing time for their players so how do they comprimise?</div>Ultimately it should be the major teams decision on who to hire and who not to hire. I think if say the Knicks want a certain coach for their minor league team they would be the ones to have the final say in the hiring process. These things they would be able to control.
The way the coaching system will be set up in the NBDL, it is going to be a farm system for coaches too. Each NBDL team will be assigned coaches from each of the 2 teams it represents. The coaches will then work together and be overseen by a general manager as to how players will be used, how minutes are distributed and so on. There is a max of how many players each team can farm down and how long a player can be there. If there was one head coach and he was from, lets say the Knicks, and there was an Asst. from the Bulls, we'd be seeing Knick players dominate PT. However, these coaches assigned from the parent (NBA) team, they are being "tried out" aswell. So no Asst. Coach looking to make a name and impress is going to try and play God over the other coaches. Trainers and other parent team personel are assigned aswell to track the developement on AND off court of these players to insure that their investment is being properly tended to away from the club team. It will work, it may frustrate some at first, but from what I've read and discussed and been told, it's a system that will allow a vast amount of players to have their talent nutured and matured. Personally, I think it's going to take away even more from the college game, because if every player thinks, oh, more rounds, I'll skip early, if I get picked fourth, it's ok, I'll get "farmed" and still be gettin paid and develope my skills while earning money. I've talked to a couple current college and pro players I know who have said, had there been 4 rounds and a system like this, they either would have bounced even earlier, or not gone to college period. And that scares the hell out of me!
radevojevic and diop were both pretty terrible picks. didn't radevojevic play for like 5 different teams? he had no shortage of chances to prove he could play...
AQctually I heard that Respret played with the cancer and was also going through keimo as he was playing. He kept it a secrect from everybody. He was on the Jim Rome show not too long ago talking about it.
Yeah, Respert discovered lumps in his stomach during his first season. He didn't even bring it up to the Bucks until after the middle of the season. He underwent treatment and tried to keep on playing but the cancer weighed too much mentally and physically. He kept it quiet and asked the organization to respect his wishes and they did, although it affected his play enough that he eventually was not asked back. Only years after (and after he beat the cancer) did he finally open up about.
'Kandi. He's done nothing at all in his career. He's been hurt. And as 44 pointed out, tons of players who are better than him were taken after him. He didn't deserve to be the top pick that year. With Darko, it's not fair to judge him yet. He hardly sees the court because Larry Brown doesn't like playing youth. When he starts getting minutes, then you can judge. Until then, I just don't find it that fair to do so.
