Wow... GS is SO much better with Craxette gone

I love how commentators talk about injured players, like "Oh, since Stephen Jackson is out, that's 20 points the Warriors are missing right there." So, with Craxette out, is that 60 points this team is missing? No, they score even more! GS hist the century mark at 9:00 to go and keeps rolling!

It's just shot attempts. That's all it is. If the Warriors get 80 shot attempts, and make 40 of them, that's 50% shooting and most likely a win. It doesn't matter if Maggette is taking them, or if Rob Kurz is taking them. Shot attempts are shot attempts.

Good teams get good shot attempts. That's all there is to it.

Well, the Warriors are getting MUCH better shots without Craxette (Crawford, Jackson, Maggette). For all I care, they can stay gone. This squad is FINALLY starting to play as one, as a cohesive unit with energy and chemistry. No one trying to play "above" the team. Nobody slacking on defense. Nobody jacking 40 foot threes with 20 on the shot clock. Nobody going and-1 mix tape or "I love me some me" despite having a wide-open teammate. Everyone moving the ball to the open man. Everybody looking for each other. Everybody feeding off each other.

Missing Maggette's 20 points? Missing Craw's 20 points? Missing Jackson's 20 points? Hmm... no!

How about Rob Kurz with 21 points on 4-7 from three, taking MUCH better shots than Maggette ever could.

How about CJ Watson with 38 points and 9 assists on 10-16 shooting.

Players will still put up numbers in this system, folks. It's not about who can put up points. It's about who can play together as a team and get good shots. With Craxette gone, the Warriors are finally starting to see what good basketball can feel like. They look free out there. They look happy. They look like they care about the team.

How about Azibuike averaging 22.4 points, 6.4 rebounds and 45% from three over his last 5 games?

This is what I've been saying all year. I said it in December, here: http://www.sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130866 I said it in January here: http://www.sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133868&highlight=battier+bell I've said it everywhere else. I'm so glad I'm starting to get to see it. It feels great to get to see these young guys playing together as a unit. It's not even young guys, either. I just want players who play good team basketball and put the team before themselves. Even the "vets" like Turiaf, Azibuike and Beans have always been this way. I've said all along give me Battier, Haslem, Tayshaun Prince, Raja Bell, Nocioni, over Craxette. Give me solid teammates who will defend and pass to the open guys. Then you can win some games.

GS doesn't need Maggette's "I love me some me" barreling his way through his own teammates just trying to get his points.

GS doesn't need Crawford, a perplexing character who doesn't seem to know what his own game is, other than to go and-1 mix tape for better or for worse.

And, as much as he's done for GS over the last few years, this team doesn't need the Stephen Jackson that throws temper tantrums, leaves his comrades out to dry on defense, and jacks up fast-break threes for no reason. If the old Stephen Jackson -- the tireless defender who always wanted to guard the best player and only seemed to take wide open shots -- if that guy wanted to come back, there couldn't be a finer teammate to plug into this current squad. But I'm not sure we'll ever see the old Jax. I hope we do, but honestly I don't know.

So, really, please don't come back, Craxette. Give us your $30 mils and let us put it in the bank for the future. This team is finally playing good basketball. There is finally daylight. I can see the playoffs soon, with the right moves and pieces. Can we just trade Craxette in for cash? I'd sell them at 1/2 price.

 

Wonder if there is any market for Crawford or Maggette. The best scenario for us is that Crawford opting out, and Nelson is being down right vicious toward Crawford to force opting out. But, it's just hard to imagine him just giving up 20 mils. To make things worse, 2010 expiring contract is very expensive. So, I guess I wouldn't mind anybody with 2 or even 3 years at this point. I don't think there is any market for Maggette though. His contract is heavy and long, and Warriors doesn't exactly want to deal him for a big pile of you-know-what with equally long term contract. At least, I think Warriors value Maggette more than Crawford. But yeah, faster we get those contracts out, better we will be. Wait, didn't we talk about the same thing about few years ago? Dang, history really do repeat...

 

Yeah history does repeat itself.... that's why we're in a constant state of rebuild... doh!

The warriors could have been better this year if they were healthier, but turnovers and bad defense will continue to be big problems so long as we have top scorers like Ellis, Maggette, and Crawford has the main go to guys.

We need a star who can do defense. That's probably why Biedrins has been viewed as untouchable because how many centers are good at locking down the paint and can do some things on offense like catch, hustle, pass, and make layups! Foyle couldn't even do half those things on offense.

 

At least, couple things may not repeat (finger crossed), because we have pretty good and young center and PF combos. Biedrins is still improving, and can't believe he is only 23. The 'old' man, Turiaf is better version of Foyle at half of the price, and Randolph/Wright is just exciting to look at. Now if we can just ship our deadweights...

 

Not to mention we have four great bargain-bin guards in Morrow, Belly, Watson, and Azibuike. Really, we have terrific prospects across the board, paired with two young centerpieces:

centerpieces: Monta + Beans

rising star: Randolph

promising young rotation players: Morrow, Belly, Azibuike, Watson, Turiaf, Kurz, Wright

There's 10 players right there that I would keep and take my chances with. I like them all. I can see a recipe for playoffs in this mix. If we could get a star PG who is strong like Chauncy Billups, the sky would be the limit.

All 10 of these guys I would want over Jax/Mags/Craw, either because they are better (Morrow and Az are both > Mags) or because they are risk free and cost nothing. I'd take Kurz over Mags. He was torching tonight, plus he sets screens, rebounds, and defends. Go back to LA Maggette!

Right now, the only thing holding this team back is Craxette. I would totally take Raja Bell/Boris Diaw/Raymond Felton in a clean swap for Craxette. At least we'd get some defense. There would be better deals I could dream about, but this one is actually realistic salary wise. And we'd get a strong PG in Felton.

 

This is a nice post. I agree with most of it. It's clear that the team is playing better as a team without the three-headed monster. It would be nice if the team could build around the actual youth, but I don't think it's realistic. What's realistic is that we're stuck with at least Stephen Jackson and Maggette. I think Crawford can be traded if we throw in a BWright or a Marco.

This team needs depth. It's obvious that this team, as well as they're playing, will never survive a full-season without help. This is why I think you need to consider the benefits of having Stephen Jackson and Maggette around. Or, at least consider that they can make some adjustments to cater to the way the team is playing now.

I don't blame Jackson for shouldering the load from the outset as we had no idea what we had in most of the guys. I don't blame Maggette for trying to do what he did in LA while being injured for the same reason. These guys were signed to big contracts and obviously wanted to show what they can do...at the expense of playing better team basketball.

I'm not saying this is the best solution, but I think it's the most realistic. I don't think a trading Jackson or Maggette is realistic, simply based on their contracts.

While the Magnificent Seven is playing awesome, I doubt they could keep it up game after game. They shot 55% FG and 45% 3FG last night. That's something you can't rely on in the NBA. The night before, the exact same team shot 44% FG and 46% 3FG and got owned for most of the game against a very good defensive team in the Rockets. So, that's when a Stephen Jackson or a Corey Maggette would have helped. Yes, the Warriors played well last night, but I think the Jazz also played poorly.

Finally, not important, but I'm not really feeling the "Craxette" label. Notice how you're the only one using it

Sorry, I don't mean to insult your creativity or anything. By all means, continue using it (as I'm sure you will).

 

Well, I did spend like 2 months staying up at night, wracking my brain trying to come up with some clever little name that you'd be blown away by and that you'd fall in love with. So, honestly, I'm devastated that you're not feeling it, DK

I just made that word up to lump together the three guys on this team who make ~ $10 mils and who don't make their teammates better. Notice how I don't toss Beans in there. He makes ~ $10 mils, too, yet he's more valuable than all three of those guys put together.

But about your previous points, obviously a 7 man rotation can't sustain energy for 82 games. Obviously they need a bench. Who would think a 7 man rotation could do it alone? That's why I say give me Battier, Haslem, Prince, Nocioni, etc. over Craxette.

Yes, this team needs a 12 man roster to be successful. No, they don't need Craxette. No, Maggette wouldn't have helped. Maggette would've made it worse.

Monta, Beans, Wright, Randolph, Belly, Morrow, Azibuike, Watson, Kurz, Turiaf -- all 10 players right here are keepers over Craxette.

So trade in Craxette for 2 more players and that makes a 12 man squad. Keep Craxette and that makes a 3-man squad with 9 spectators.

? What game were you watching? Even with 7 players, it was tied for the entire night, went down to the wire, and the Rockets eeked it out by 4 points. How is that "owned?"

And no, Maggette would not have made that game better. The Warriors played great against the Rockets. Azibuike had 32 points going against Ron Artest all night. The Rockets are stallwarts on defense and still GS could have easily made two extra buckets and taken the win. If Maggette was in there, GS never would've had a chance.


Obviously, GS will need more than 7 players each night. But 7 without Maggette is better than 8 with Maggette.

 

You're missing my point. I never said they need those three. I'm saying they're stuck with at least two. I see no plausible scenario where the Warriors will be able to dump Maggette or Jackson. But, I will never say never.

I never argued this point.

You make it sound so simple. Maybe it is. I'd like to see it.

I watched the same game. Yes, the game was close, but when it mattered most, the Rockets shut the Warriors down defensively: not giving Morrow a lick of day light, not allowing Randolph to score inside, etc. The Warriors looked like a college team trying to find the right shot, but kept getting shut down. That's where a Jackson or Maggette could have helped. But, that wasn't really my point, which you keep trying to argue. You seem to think I'm a huge fan of Maggette, but look back at my posts from earlier in the season; I was his harshest critic. Looking at the Warriors current situation, we're stuck with Maggette so the Warriors will have to figure out a way to use him effectively. I thought they did a good job of that before he got injured and gave me some hope that he can be incorporated into the long-term goals of the Warriors.

I disagree, 8 with Maggette is better

 

I'm pretty excited about going to tonights game. I'll get a closeup look at the kids. It's kind of funny. The better these "scrubs" and youth play, the easier it'll be to package one or 2 of them with Magette in the off-season. If that happens along with Crawford opting out. I'll be happy with the off-season.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with the ditch the "Craxette" trio.

Unfortunately, remember though that some of the teams they are playing are just playing out the string (not necessarily the Jazz) and whether the 7 would sustain that over a year is questionable.

However, I am sick of Crawford and hope I never have to watch that one-dimensional guy play in a warrior uni again. Yes he's a professional who does not complain and has always been a good guy. But wow, what an awful passer, what an awful rebounder, an awful defender. Just no apparent effort given. Totally focused on scoring, that's all I see.

SJax? 4 more years on his contract? good luck getting someone to pick that up. At least Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry are below 32.

 

Maybe Rowell can convince Twardzick to take them. He owes us a few.

 

You're right, it is very unlikely. I still think it needs to happen, though, so until the 2009 trade deadline, I'll keep hope alive. Maybe we can move them one at a time. Craw right away, then Mags plus prospect before the start of the season, and then midway through next season we pull off a miraculous blockbuster that sends Captain Jack packin to a contender like the Spurs....

Amen. Have fun at the game. If Craw opts out, and we can package a prospect with Mags, without losing Morrow/Randolph, I'll be happy.

Well, I don't know, I think stat-wise his contract is pretty good. I mean, where else can you get a 20/5/5 guy for under $10 mils per year? There has to be some GM out there who can't see past the stats. Same goes for Mags. There's probably some knucklehead GM out there who thinks Mags is a super-scoring machine. Which he is! We should be getting top tier value for these guys! Someone out there will feel the pressure to make a move, look at Mags/Jax stats versus dollars, and cave in.

I mean, if Rowell could do it, surely there's someone out there even more foolish than him?


Right?


Guys?

 

Last night's game was a clear indication why this team can't put up consistent great performances. It's the NBA. Teams make adjustments every day. The "Magnificent 7" plays unselfishly because they have to. Like I said, they remind me of a good college team, whipping the ball around trying to find a seam or an open man. But eventually, that act can only take you so far unless you have a player who can impact a game.

Which brings me to who we have on our team that can do that and why I think they wouldn't have been a detriment to the team: Jackson and Maggette, and even Crawford (but let's dismiss him from further discussions). These players don't need to rely on a system to perform well; they SHOULD rely more on a system to compliment their games, and I think they have done that more than they have before this season, but not enough, which is why it's so easy to criticize them.

Let's not kid ourselves, they are not THAT good to carry a team...well, maybe Jackson but we all know he tries too hard sometimes and the moxy he displays is often times to a fault. We don't have that superstar that can consistently take over a game. Monta has been missing. Randolph is emerging.

Anyway, my point is that the recent weeks have been great to see the young guys play and play unselfishly. You wish there could be a balance between getting the young guys to play (i.e. PT) AND getting the veterans to play within the system. You need a healthy roster to achieve that. So, I think it is fair to say that injuries have plagued the Warriors as much as it gave the young guys an opportunity.

Please don't take this as a promo for Jackson or Maggette. I do think the Warriors are better off without them, but more from a financial perspective.

 

I guess I'm one of the few who think we should keep Jax because the Warriors can make the playoffs next season if they could land someone like Chris Bosh. Jax will be in the back court with Monta, and I think Watson is going to get some minutes. I'm okay with getting rid of Cragette, but realistically Mags will be near impossible to move. I'm not one to just let the young players develop because I don't think we have enough to win with them. There are too many question marks. We'll need a nice blend of veteran players and youngsters and do well again in the draft. So next season, I see something like:

PG: Jax, Watson, Marco
SG: Monta, Morrow
SF: AR, Buike, Jax
C: AB, Turiaf
PF: Bosh, Mags (6th man), Kurz

 

First off, Monta has been missing from the "Magnificent 7." Beans has been missing too, and just came back. Also, Bellinelli is almost back. So you have to remember that, minus Craxette, it's the Magnificent 7 plus Monta, Beans, Marco, and eventually Wright.

Second off, if you're looking at last night's game as a reason why this team needs Maggette, Crawford and Jackson, I say look again. I mean, it was the Spurs.

Do you really think Craxette would've helped GS from getting owned by the Spurs? Craxette was getting owned by the Knicks and the Thunder, for gawd sakes.

This current "magnificent 7" squad is a team that straight up torched the Utah Jazz, and then put the hammer on them in the 4th quarter. A team that went toe to toe with Artest and Battier, down to the final minute of the game and lost by 4 points. And, yes, a team that then got whooped by the Championship-caliber Spurs.

That's two excellent performances against three of the top-tier teams.


And with all this said, still, honestly, I'm not really worried about whether they win or not. They just started playing together as starters. I'm concerned with whether they play the game the right way or not.

Championship teams are built from the ground up. You have to start with a solid foundation.

I wouldn't want to build a house of cards. I would rather build a team the right way. I don't care about wins if they come with no rhyme or reason. I don't want a team who gets bitch-slapped by the Grizzlies and then comes out and beats the Lakers (see the mad science experiment I call Craxette).

I want a team that shows up every night knowing at least one thing: They will play as a team. they will respect each other, play for each other, they will try to find the open man, they will try to find the hot hand, they won't take dumb ass shots, and they will at least RUN back on defense. Kinda like the Spurs, yeah?

This is something I have been asking of Craxette all season, and something that they rarely do. Especially the part about taking dumb ass shots and not running back on defense.

This is something that the "Magnificent 7" has always done, IMO, whether off the bench, or now in a starting role. Add Monta, Belly, Wright to that mix, you have the Magnificent 10.

Furthermore, wins will come with experience. A few stars will emerge. Eventually, they'll shine brighter than Craxette. To me, what matters is how they get there.

I don't want Maggette and Jax now to score the ball at the expense of good team play. I'll wait for Randolph and Monta to grow into the two true superstars that Jax/Mags could only ever dream of being.


I don't care about Win / Loss right now. This is the best basketball I've seen all year from GS. They're playing as a team. Honestly, I am amazed to say it, but this is about the best possible ending to an otherwise abysmal season I could have possibly imagined (other than getting the #1-3 pick). We are finally seeing the right recipe for success. We finally have a good team culture, after such a weird one for most of the season. Our players look happy out there. You can see flashes of the future. Signs of hope when I thought there may be none.

GS is starting to turn it around with this group. Soon, Randolph will emerge as the superstar I've been saying he would become (since last summer, i.e. I said it after the draft here: http://www.sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118695&highlight=randolph+superstar and here: http://www.sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118695&highlight=randolph and here: http://www.sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117660&page=4&highlight=randolph and everywhere else since then).

Let Monta come back into the fold. Let Randolph emerge. The chemistry continue to brew. Add in a draft pick. Now we're talking.

However.... Add Craxette back into the mix? BOOM! It's all blown up. And you have the Golden State traveling carnival once again.

I know I'm being dramatic, but it's a forum, and it's how I feel. Something good is brewing here in GS. Just stay away from it, Craxette, lest you spoil it.

 

I don't agree that something good is brewing here in GS and we have a solid foundation when you still have Cohan = owner, RR = prez, and Nelsonus = big trader. I know, you were talking about the players and the Magnificent 7, but it's only part of the equation.

That said, we still need Jax at the PG position. Monta can't do it by himself and is more a SG, CJ can't play it full time, and Belinelli still needs to prove himself. Already, both Nelson and Rowell have talked about the Jax - Monta back court, so they're entrenched as any Warrior could be at those starting positions.

No one has really talked about Mags, so I think he's still with us unless Nelson can trade him back to the Clippers without taking Baron Davis back. Otherwise, I doubt there's a market for him because of his salary unless one take garbage in return. So, we may as keep Mags as he fills a role as 6th man, and can play the PF position.

Defense? Fuggetaboutit with Nelson as coach. We'll still try to outscore our opponents even if we're not playing small ball.

I think Randolph will likely be moved into the PF position for next season instead of SF, but I'm not sure if he's ready to play full-time, because Nelson will likely still limit his minutes. Nelson will still trade for a big man first because of this.

 

I don't know if you caught Nellie's last interview on KNBR. A caller asked him if he believes that small ball's time is in the past. He flat out said yes, but with the team as constructed that there's no other way to compete. He wants the team to go for rebounding, defendse and passing in the off-season. Each player that they acquire (draft, signing, or trades) should have 2 if not all 3 of those skills.

 

^^i hope that he sticks by his word, but it's nelson...who knows what the hell he's gonna do.

 

Huh? Is he saying that he had nothing to do with constructing that team jam-packed with combo guards and small forwards (not even including the others who are gone like Demarcus Nelson, Marcus Williams, and Dion Dowell)? Because I'm not buying that. Maybe it was Mullin or Rowell who pulled the trigger on some of these deals, but I can't believe Nelson didn't at the very least recommend or push for a lot of these guys.