<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jul 27 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 27 2008, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think this went well!</div> You don't even know the half of it. You should see the conversation he had with my away message. </div> Didn't I just read that?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 27 2008, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jul 27 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 27 2008, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think this went well!</div> You don't even know the half of it. You should see the conversation he had with my away message. </div> Didn't I just read that? </div> Oh yeah, duh
Just to get back on topic, and I may be little biased here since I'm a fan of my fellow Shanghainese, but I think the accurate way of putting it, and I think I'm being fair is that: Yao is better skill-wise, but Dwight is better athletically and has plenty of time to grow. I think Yao has more in his repertoire to use to score on people, while Dwight is more or less a power player. When it comes to rebounding, Yao can't jump nor is he fast to the boards, he does what he does based off his box out and we all know what happens to Yao when a faster player is on him. Dwight rebounds cause he hustles for them and can jump really high too, as evidence in the all-star dunk contest. But I will say this, if we compared today's Yao (healthy) to a Dwight, who is caught up in age, I'd give the advantage to Dwight. I think I was being fairly objective and fair with this.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DynastYWarrioR6 @ Jul 28 2008, 04:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Just to get back on topic, and I may be little biased here since I'm a fan of my fellow Shanghainese, but I think the accurate way of putting it, and I think I'm being fair is that: Yao is better skill-wise, but Dwight is better athletically and has plenty of time to grow. I think Yao has more in his repertoire to use to score on people, while Dwight is more or less a power player. When it comes to rebounding, Yao can't jump nor is he fast to the boards, he does what he does based off his box out and we all know what happens to Yao when a faster player is on him. Dwight rebounds cause he hustles for them and can jump really high too, as evidence in the all-star dunk contest. But I will say this, if we compared today's Yao (healthy) to a Dwight, who is caught up in age, I'd give the advantage to Dwight. I think I was being fairly objective and fair with this.</div> I agree, that was fairly objective. neither player is bad, and Howard is not way ahead of Yao. In a few years, Howard continues to improve, I think he will be though.
Yao's offensive game is so much better than Dwight's. That's really the last aspect of his game that we're all waiting for Howard to keep developing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Here are the many reasons of why Yao Ming is better than Dwight Howard. For One, Yao Ming just destroys Dwight Howard when they go up head to head and play each other, here are the stats. http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h...mp;p2=howardw01 So as you see Yao Ming's Averages against Dwight Howard in his Career are: 24.3 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 1.1 APG, 2.3 BPG, 55% FG, Dwight Howard's Averages against Yao in his career are 12.0 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 0.9 APG, 1.4 BPG, 44% FG So as you see, Dwight struggles very often against Yao Ming, and Yao doubles Dwight's averages in points and blocks and is a much better passer and a shooter/scorer.</div> First of all, you're using career statistics which isn't fair considering Yao is almost six years older than Howard. He's had more time to improve his game and develop. Also, they have played against one another very few times in the last couple of years. You know why? Yao has been injured. Which brings me to my next point: Yao is VERY injury prone and can't stay healthy. I did some research and throughout the course of his career, he has missed 88 out of a possible 492 games played. That means he has missed 18% of his games since he entered the league. For every five games he plays in, he misses one game. He misses an average of 17.2 games per season, including missing 34 games and 25 games in the last two years. Need any more stats thrown at you? When one injury heals, he finds another way to get hurt. Since he entered the league, he's definitely improved in one stat: games missed. Nearly every season he misses more games than he did in the season before. And this is sort of random but missing 21 games because of a toe infection? What the hell? Dwight Howard fractured his sternum and he was at Team USA training camp going 100% a few weeks later. The guy is a pansy and I know you don't like to hear that but come on, just look at the facts. Speaking of Dwight's injuries... oh wait, that's the only significant one he's had since he entered the league. That's right, Dwight has missed ZERO games due to injury in his four seasons in the league. He played through pain in the Pistons series and has never been hurt enough not to suit up. He's started in every game of his career except one but it wasn't due to injury, it was because he was late to a team meeting. So who would you rather have? The guy that you cringe and worry about every step down the court, or the guy that gets hacked and tripled team on a nightly basis but has never had a serious injury? Obviously, you take Howard, the guy whose big toe hasn't made him miss a quarter of a season. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (YaoDreamTmac1 @ Jul 17 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd also like to mention the B.S of Yao not being out of the 1st round and how that does not affect the fact that he is no longer a better player against Dwight Howard. Dwight Howard played against the Toronto Raptors a very soft interior defense who only has one true Center of Rasho, and that is very hard on him especially since he isn't a "great" defender himself and cannot take him on himself the entire game so they needed Bosh to play on him and Rasho didn't play on him that often anyways. So, as you see that Dwight had an easy matchup against the Raptors, he struggled a lot against the Detroit Pistons, simply because they are too good of a defensivey team so they really gave Dwight a hard time even though they played him 1 on 1 because Dwight is not that skilled of a player.</div> First of all, did you watch this series? The Raptors were throwing several players at Dwight at a time, he was never guarded one on one by just Bosh or Rasho. And easy match up or not, give Dwight some credit. The dude had more 20/20 games (and a 30/20 game) in a series since Nate Thurmond in the 1960's. He dominated on both ends of the court and made people realize that he is the most dominant player in the game today. You remind me of Kobe haters after he dropped 81 points on the Raptors in 2006 when you bring up their defense. Regardless of the defense, it's an amazing feat and definitely something Yao Ming could never do (he has enough trouble grabbing 10+ boards in a game, forget 20). Now let's look at the players Yao has matched up against in the playoffs since you love talking about an opponents interior defense. Aside from Shaq and Malone in his second season, the dude hasn't played anyone. 2004-2005: Rockets vs. Mavericks: Yao was matched up against Erick Dampier, DJ Mbenga, Shawn Bradley, and occasionally Dirk Nowitzki. Wow, talk about some fierce interior defenders huh? Guess what, Yao still couldn't average a double double finishing the series averaging 21.4 PPG and 7.7 RPG. What Dwight did was easy and Yao could have done it against a weak frontcourt! Yeah.... subtract the amount of rebounds Yao averaged in this series from Dwight's rebound average against the Raptors and Howard still grabbed 11 board a game. Ming couldn't get to eight rebounds against those guys? Don't even act like Dwight wasn't spectacular against Toronto. 2006-2007: Rockets vs. Jazz: Yao was matched up against Mehmet Okur, Jarron Collins, Carlos Boozer, and Paul Milsap. Out of those four players, ZERO of them averaged 1 block per game. Collins and Boozer didn't even average .5 blocks per game. Don't talk about Dwight's competition down low if Yao's has been just as bad, if not worse. And if it wasn't Yao's fault at all for the loss against the Jazz, why was he quoted as saying “I didn't do my job” following the game? He averaged 25 and 10 against the Jazz, barely got a double double. And you're going to try to downplay Dwight's 23 PPG, 18.2 RPG, and 3.8 BPG averages against the Raptors because they didn't have any dominant defenders? Please. And once again, did you watch the Magic-Pistons series? They barely played Dwight one on one. The entire time, all you saw was this: And Dwight's numbers were low because he got injured in two of the games. He hurt his finger in one of the early games and fractured his sternum in another. The fact that he played through those injuries and still put up those numbers is pretty damn impressive. You know you're a beast when 14 points, 17 rebounds, and 3 blocks is an awful game. Your playoff argument is a joke and if you don't see why, you're the only one. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Now i'd like to mention that Yao is not a choker, because he has simply done pretty good in the playoffs his teammates just have not helped win the series, same with T-Mac, http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...=pg&split=0 Here are the Stats Yao averaged against the Jazz last year: 25.1 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 44 FG%, although the FG% doesn't look good, he did help win Game 1 against the Jazz, because he was the only player scoring at all in that game, T-Mac didn't get it going then. Many people said that yao was the reason why they lost to the Jazz because of his defensive problems which is not the case, because the Rockets failed to make it out of the 1st round this year with a better bench and Yao out, that obviously showed that Yao is very useful and a very very good interior scorer. Boozer actually had his worst playoffs series stats against the Rockets then he did against any other team that year. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...pg&split=10 Boozer's Stats against the Rockets: 24.6 PPG, 11 RPG, 50 FG% Boozer's stats against the Warriors: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...=pg&split=9 24.2 PPG, 14 RPG, 60 FG% Boozer's Stats against the Spurs http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...pg&split=24 21.4 PPG, 12 RPG, 52.9 FG% So as you say that Boozer shot the worse against the rockets and Yao and that Yao is not a bad defender he just didn't defend him as good as other possibly players possibly could but he really did dominate against other teams like the Spurs and the Warriors Now, I'd like to show you the stats that Yao has had against the Mavericks and the Lakers which were his other 2 playoff teams he has played against Yao's stats vs the Mavericks http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...=pg&split=0 21.4 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 65 FG% Yao's Stats vs Lakers ( With Steve Francis) http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?...=pg&split=0 15 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 45.6 FG% You must remember that Yao played against the prime shaq that year and that Yao also dominated Shaq in the regular season before that as well.</div> I'm going to completely honest with you... I read through that and I just got a bunch of rambling and excuses. It's not even debatable. It's just you trying to justify Yao's numbers and performances. I will say though, Yao said he didn't do his job after the Jazz series so obviously he felt he was at least a little bit to blame for the loss (whether you believe it or not). And funny you don't go into detail regarding the Mavericks series. Why didn't Yao grab at least 10 rebounds in that series bro? The Jazz interior defense isn't a million times better than Toronto's is it? How come if you add ten rebounds to Yao's averages in that series, Dwight still has more in his series against the Raps? Just wondering. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I'd now also like to mention that Yao has much much much more skill than Dwight will probably ever have in his entire career, Yao can be relyed on in the high post or low post, Dwight? Not so much, I def would not trust his passing ability or his shooting ability to play in the high post... Yao you can def trust him on there because he can do either one and he is very good and underrated at passing.</div> To judge how much skill Dwight will have in his career at 22 years old is ridiculous. Yao is almost 28 so that can be judged. Dwight has been able to legally drink for a little over a year so that's a bit premature. I, and every other NBA fan, know that jump shot is the one area that Yao can beat Dwight in. Howard's jumpshot is inconsistent though he is improving it. But with that said, I'd take a poor shooting Dwight who can dominate and dunk at two guys at a time over a Yao that can pull up and hit a jumpshot. Unlike toughness, you can teach and develop a jumpshot. Dwight's passing also improved last year. But like I said before, give it a couple of years because the guy should have been a senior in college last year. I think it's a bit early to crucify the guy. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Now for Defense, all of you do realize that Dwight is a better OVERALL defender, which i agree with however, I do not believe that Dwight is a better Man-to-man defender which is different because as a big man you would rather have an interior shot blocker all over the place, but if you are a wing player you would rather have a man-to-man perimeter guy. The Rockets are 2nd Place in FG% allowed, behind the Boston Celtics, and that is def not a conscience that Yao is also the center and that he sucks on defense, because that is completely wrong, Yao is an above average defender and possibly elite if he weren't hurt all the time. There have been many quotes saying that Yao is a very good defender by Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikembe Mutombo and Phil Jackson here they are. http://www.yaomingmania.com/blog/2007/05/2...-todays-workout "Yao Ming is very, very intelligent and also very diligent. He is not only good in offense, he is also outstanding in defense. There had not been in the whole NBA history to have such a big guy like him that is so balanced in both offense and defense." http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?rls...0260&lid=10 "If I was Curry, I would not challenge Yao," Rockets center Dikembe Mutombo said. "I would not challenge Yao and get that ball blocked. That was just embarrassing. He was trying to get himself on Sportscenter." ?Deke Tenacious defense Yao Ming switched to defend New Orleans forward David West late in the game and forced West to shoot over him. West missed all eight of his shots when defended by Yao. "I tried to keep him from scoring," Yao said. "You cannot allow him to keep making shots and shots and shots. When I started guarding him he wasn't able to get the pick-and-roll in the post. He had to shoot from further (out). http://www.82games.com/nichols2.htm Here are stats that also prove that Yao is a very good defender himself as well. Now i'd like to mention the +/- of the defense of Yao and Dwight http://www.82games.com/0708/07HOU21D.HTM http://www.82games.com/0708/07ORL16D.HTM When Yao is off the court they are -0.8 Net which means they are worse with him off the court and for Dwight when he is off the court they are +3.4 net which means they are better w/o him on the court. Those stats also counted when Yao was injuried and not playing at all with Deke starting. http://www.82games.com/0708/07HOU21A.HTM http://www.82games.com/0708/07ORL16A.HTM</div> Whew, I was hoping we could see some quotes from biased people praising Yao. People hired by the Rockets organization, Yao's teammates, and Yao himself are always the best people to hear from when you're trying to determine if a player is truly talented at something... Look, I can play that game too. "I've never seen a big man with his stamina," says Orlando coach Stan Van Gundy Howard's athleticism is most manifest in those situations -- the passer need only throw the ball, almost blindly, in the general direction of the basket, knowing that Howard will swoop in and put it through. "If you make just a pretty good pass," says Arroyo, "he's going to do something alien with it, something out of this world." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...1210/index.html You already said that Dwight is a better overall defender than Yao so you pretty much did my job for me. What's that now? Dwight > Yao on defense Dwight > Yao on toughness and injuries Dwight > Yao on athleticism Dwight > Yao on rebounding Dwight > Yao on power and dominance Yao > Dwight on jump shots Hmm? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Now i'd also like to mention more of the offense, as you see Yao attempts 48% Jumpers and makes it 38% of the time, shoots 39% close shots and makes it 55% of the time For Dwight, he attempts 16% jumpers and makes it 24% of the time which is very low and when he shoots 52% close shots and makes it only 52% of the time, close shots are usually like 5 ft and within or maybe 6 ft, but as you see Yao is a better finisher when it comes to layups and creating his own shots which shows that Yao is a better scorer by alot Now here are the clutch stats http://www.82games.com/0708/07HOU21E.HTM http://www.82games.com/0708/07ORL16E.HTM Yao scores 36.8 PPG per48 minute in clutch time which are usually 4th quarter or OT which is very good, he also has a better rebounding rate then dwight in the clutch Dwight scores, 13.8 PPG per48 minute in the clutch so his stats are clearly non-existant, so as you see Yao is also a much more clutch player than Dwight Howard is. So as you see Yao > Dwight</div> If Yao is so clutch, why hasn't he single handily led a team to the second round of the playoffs like Dwight did? Show me fourth quarter stats all you want but I refuse to believe that a player is clutch if they've never won a playoff series. All I know is that Dwight led the league in: double doubles, rebounds, free throw attempts, fifth in blocks (Yao has never cracked the top five), third in FG%. Give those stats a look too. ___________________________________________________________________ Now to my other UNBIASED quotes: At one point Suns guard Raja Bell, never one to shy away from contact, asked assistant Alvin Gentry what approach to take when Howard comes steaming down the lane on a screen-and-roll. "Should I step in and plug?" said Bell. "I'd just get the hell out of the way in that situation," answered Gentry. "Just making sure we were on the same page," said Bell. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jack_mccallum/12/04/howard1210/index.html "Who cares if he supposedly doesn't have a true offensive move," added Phoenix coach Mike D'Antoni, who coached Howard over the summer with Team USA. "That's what cracks me up about people. He averages 24 (points) and 20 (rebounds) anyways. It doesn't really matter. He can get to the basket. He's good enough to keep you honest. He'll improve in time. He's only 21. If it never comes, he's still really, really good. He's the best out there." http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-363/It-s-Getting-Hard-to-Describe-Dwight-Howard.html "He is so talented. He is so developed. He has just so much promise and I'm just glad that I'll be out of the league when he's peaking," said Tim Duncan. http://www.nba.com/media/magic/0506_dailydouble.pdf "He's a great young player. In terms of going to the boards, rebounding, blocking shots, he's going to be one of the best ever. And it looks like he has the work ethic to improve on the offensive end," said Greg Popovich. http://www.nba.com/media/magic/0506_dailydouble.pdf "He's going to be as good as any player we've seen in this league," said Larry Brown. http://www.nba.com/media/magic/0506_dailydouble.pdf "Phenomenal. I hate to make comparisons, but he is like a reincarnation of Tim Duncan out there. The sky is the limit." - Steve Nash http://www.nba.com/media/magic/0506_dailydouble.pdf Oh and it wouldn't be a Dwight vs. Yao thread if I didn't say it. EVERY SINGLE GM IN THE LEAGUE WOULD CHOOSE DWIGHT TO START A TEAM OVER YAO NO QUESTION! And yes, Dwight will be a million times better than him in a few years. These threads remind me of the old Dwight vs. Emeka threads where people backed Okafor and now look stupid because of the talent gap. A couple years from now we'll all look back on this thread and it'll be pretty damn funny one way or the other I could go on and say more but I feel like I'm wasting my time. Most of your arguments were pretty weak so I'm just going to stop there. Peace out.
He posted it on another forum weeks ago so I just copied and pasted it. He left the thread and admitted he was wrong on the other site and I wanted to do the same here. haha
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 28 2008, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dead men tell no tales Banned posters leave no replies</div> What if he makes another profile
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Jul 28 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 28 2008, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dead men tell no tales Banned posters leave no replies</div> What if he makes another profile </div> - I should add that as a smilie
This for you, take it [video=youtube;lPQa49vLJ78]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPQa49vLJ78"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPQa49vLJ78[/video]
Kwame Brown had a 30/19 game. Is it good? /sarcasm. Would you rely on Dwight Howard or Yao Ming in clutch or playoff situations? Yao Ming's basketball IQ is also higher than Dwight's, <span style="color:red">REMOVED</span>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AhLian @ Jul 28 2008, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kwame Brown had <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">a </span>30/19 game. Is it good? /sarcasm. Would you rely on Dwight Howard or Yao Ming in clutch or playoff situations? Yao Ming's basketball IQ is also higher than Dwight's, <span style="color:red">REMOVED</span></div> Yeah, one 30/19 game. Dwight averaged about 22 points and 18 rebounds in round one of the playoffs, 6 games!! I'd rely on Dwight in the playoffs, thank you.
Dwight Howard is a stronger finisher around the basket and he's a superior rebounder. Those are two of the most important attributes you look for in a center, so I could certainly see why people would rate Howard over Yao. But I do think a healthy Yao Ming is a better all-around player -- definitely a more polished offensive player, and probably overall more impactful on the defensive end as well. There are certain matchups which are just bad for Yao, but against teams with traditional centers, and (I'll stress) when healthy, I think he's the better player. I will add, though, that I think Yao's development has plateaued, while Howard is improving by leaps and bounds. I think this time next year, I'll be saying that Howard is the clearly better player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (durvasa @ Jul 28 2008, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dwight Howard is a stronger finisher around the basket and he's a superior rebounder. Those are two of the most important attributes you look for in a center, so I could certainly see why people would rate Howard over Yao. But I do think a healthy Yao Ming is a better all-around player -- definitely a more polished offensive player, and probably overall more impactful on the defensive end as well. There are certain matchups which are just bad for Yao, but against teams with traditional centers, and (I'll stress) when healthy, I think he's the better player. I will add, though, that I think Yao's development has plateaued, while Howard is improving by leaps and bounds. I think this time next year, I'll be saying that Howard is the clearly better player.</div> I think me and you said the same thing. We are clearly the most objective people on this forum.
