As good as Battier is defensively, and as much I would have him on my team any day of the week, trading him straight up for a guy who is said to be a superstar and stromile swift is very very risky. The rockets better hope Gay doesnt turn out to have the production of a 8 pick, or this will bite them in the butt, real real hard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">funny how you didn't name the successful ones with potential. Lebron James Carmelo Anthony Tracy Mcgrady Kobe Bryant Jermaine O neal Kevin Garnett All those guys were drafted from high school except Carmelo who was drafted as a freshman. ALL potential, Lebron was hyped so much, but no one knew if he could translate his game to NBA. They took a gamble and they were right.</div> I fail to see how Lebron was drafted on potential. Everyone pretty much knew he would be a stud in the NBA. I think everyone knew what the Cavs were getting when they drafted him. At the very least they knew he would be a very good player, and possibly the superstar he is today. Carmelo led his team to a national championship. He was drafted because he was a leader on that team and one of the best players in the tournament. The other high schoolers - obviously they are drafted on potential because the jump from high school to the NBA is such a huge leap.. much larger than college to the NBA. And O'Neal and TMac both didn't fully realize their potential until after they were traded a few seasons into their careers on OTHER teams. Obviously everyone in the draft is based on potential, since no one really knows how they will play in the NBA. Yao Ming was technically drafted on potential. But there's a difference between: -a guy who's a great athlete, got a huge upside, long wingspan, etc.. etc.. -a guy who can flat out score and can contribute right away, excellent shooter, aggressive rebounder, great skills, still has room for improvement, etc.. etc.. When their best quality is "potential and upside" and worst fault is "questionable motivation" how the hell is that player ever going to reach that potential? At the end of the day.. there is an equal chance of Gay being a bust as there is of Gay being a star. CD wasn't willing to take that chance with Yao and TMac heading into their prime, but Jerry West was. West traded the heart and soul of the Grizzlies for this kid, and ties up valuable cap space with Stro's contract - that's a pretty big gamble on West's part too, if Gay turns out to be a bust.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">David Wesley is 6-1, Battier is 6-9. Please, don't compare them. If Battier starts, TMac will shift down to shooting guard, while Battier will start at small forward. He has the strength to guard the post and still has excellent footwork to keep up on the perimeter. When we face an uptempo team with a small power forward like Lamar Odom or Shawn Marion, Battier could easily shift over to power forward. Also, of course Battier is getting old. Still, he's just a year older than Swift and five times the player. He's not going to get worse, only better. He's not 34 yet.</div> Umm no.. On radio they were talking to some guy from the organization of houston and he said that tmac will play small forward and battier will play the 2. the reason that tmac will play 3 is because he is not good enough on defense to guard ray allen and kobe and all the good 2's. with his back problem and his lazy defense mcgardy will stay at 3. and battier will play 2 to guard the good 2's because battier is a real good defender.
last season the Rockets guards were getting abused because Wesley and Head were too small to defend bigger (6'5"-6'8") shooting guards. Battier will help with that, BUT.. they were also too slow to defend quick guards like Chris Paul, and now they'll be even worse. Hopefully Yao won't get fouled out too many times next season trying to cover for the backcourt breakdowns defensively.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry guys I'm still crying over HOW MUCH BATTIER BLOWS...... WE GET THE GUY IM DREAMING ABOUT AND WE TRADE HIM FOR A GUY WHOS OLD. WOW!!!! I'm on borderline on being a non-rockets fan</div> COME ON MAN...DONT BE DUMB he's 27 years old
There's no reason to knock this trade, Shane Battier is exactly the player the Rockets need. The Rockets are in a position to win right now, and Battier improvers their odds significantly. Rudy Gay might have more potential and upside, but how many years is it going to take for him to have any impact on getting this team a title with TMac & Yao? At the very minimum it's going to take 4 years, and there's still no gurantees he even reaches his potential. With Battier, you know exactly what you're getting night in and night out. He takes all the defensive pressure off of TMac. Every game Battier's responsibility will be guarding the opposing teams top option at SG or SF. Defense is 50% of the game, and when you get arguably the best defender at the swing position, you're way ahead in this deal. On offense Battier won't hurt you either. Most defensive specialists are limited scorers, ie Bruce Bowen. Battier shoots a high percentage from the floor, gets points off pure hustle, makes his FTs, and can make wide open shots. He doesn't need the ball to get you 10 or 12 points a game. Unloading Swift is an added bonus (is this confirmed btw?) Now the Rockets have some cap space to bring Mike James in and possibly add another player in the front court.
Damnit... with gay and swift to be traded and T-mac's chronic back problem, i won't be seeing any highlight reels from the rockets... Man this sucks!
Ok so I might be weird but not liking giving up swift and gay for Shane, but I'm sure that T-Mac will be better next year just by his and his trainers comments, so I'm not worried about that. I also think that T-mac might still shift to the 2 and play the oposing 3 on defense and shane play the 2 on defense. I don't know just a thought...hey last year we all thought we were getting a PF in the draft and we didn't and head didn't turn out so bad so who knows? My question is, what is memphis thinking? Yeah they get Gay but why do they want swift again? They didn't want him for that $$ last summer so why this summer? I think they might have another trade in the works or something. Call me stupid but unless we can sign someone that would be an upgrade in our PF position, I would rather have Swift and Howard than just Howard...unless...Hayes will do something next year???? We'l have to wait and see....
I don't doubt Shane Battier, but where is it written in stone that Gay will take 2-4 years to develop. He might contribute right away.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting devin:</div><div class="quote_post">Damnit... with gay and swift to be traded and T-mac's chronic back problem, i won't be seeing any highlight reels from the rockets... Man this sucks!</div> Highlight reels > Wins? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting On_The_Rim29:</div><div class="quote_post">As good as Battier is defensively, and as much I would have him on my team any day of the week, trading him straight up for a guy who is said to be a superstar and stromile swift is very very risky. The rockets better hope Gay doesnt turn out to have the production of a 8 pick, or this will bite them in the butt, real real hard.</div> Gay is not a superstar. He is what he is; an unproven rookie. There is no guarantee you are getting someone good. Gay could turn out to be a great player. Or he could turn out to be a Harold Minor type player. With Battier, you know what you are getting. Some of you are too enamored with NBA Live or whatever Basketball Video Games you play. And its really apparent.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">With Battier, you know exactly what you're getting night in and night out. He takes all the defensive pressure off of TMac. Every game Battier's responsibility will be guarding the opposing teams top option at SG or SF. Defense is 50% of the game, and when you get arguably the best defender at the swing position, you're way ahead in this deal</div> That was supposed to be Kieth Bogans job. We simply have too many scappy players but not enough proven scorers around Tmac & Yao. Now I've changed my mind on the trade, it's reasonable IF we win big in free agency. But if we don't land some scorers, this draft is TERRIBLE.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">That was supposed to be Kieth Bogans job. We simply have too many scappy players but not enough proven scorers around Tmac & Yao. Now I've changed my mind on the trade, it's reasonable IF we win big in free agency. But if we don't land some scorers, this draft is TERRIBLE.</div> Well, if you can't tell the difference between Bogans and Battier, then really, there is no point in discussing basketball with you. At all. FWIW, Battier can score. It just wasn't his priority in Memphis. He shot 48.8% from the field. Just a shade under 40% from behind the arc. He can shoot and score, when needed. And he brings intangibles. Hard nosed defense. Ability to defend and play multiple positions. High basketball IQ (which is key to playing good basketball). Good passer. But then again, you probably already knew this, right?
Battier > Bogans x 10 this is a proven fact. Why is everyone argueing over Battier's defense? He is in top 10 for swingmen defenders. It is his offense that I hate. He will only average 8-12 ppg. Swift was averageing 9. Not much of an increase, BUT battier is more consistent. We will just have to wait and see if we get Kyle Lowry also.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">That was supposed to be Kieth Bogans job. We simply have too many scappy players but not enough proven scorers around Tmac & Yao. Now I've changed my mind on the trade, it's reasonable IF we win big in free agency. But if we don't land some scorers, this draft is TERRIBLE.</div> Keith Bogans can give you scrappy play in a limited amount of time on the court. He's a nice player coming off the bench, but you can't expect him to defend at Shane's level given the same amount of minutes. The notion Battier cannot score is another misconception. Battier is an efficient scorer and doesn't have any problems scoring in the double digits. Like I mentioned above, you don't have to run a single play for him, and he'll get you double digits. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't doubt Shane Battier, but where is it written in stone that Gay will take 2-4 years to develop. He might contribute right away.</div> Durvasa made a post awhile back highlighting when a player starts to peak. Based on his chart most take 4 to 5 years before they start living up to their potential. Gay will contribute right away, but it wouldn't anywhere close to the impact Battier gives you. Rudy Gay isn't strong enough or conditioned enough to defend in the NBA. It will take at least a year to adjust to the physical pounding and increase his muscle mass. Rudy Gay disappears in pressure situations. You can't have a mentally weak player on the floor when the post season comes along. Let's put it in perspective. Would you agree Yao Ming was a better prospect than Rudy Gay when he was drafted? How many years has it taken Yao Ming to finally reach 20/10? It took 4 years for him to reach that type of production.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">Battier > Bogans x 10 this is a proven fact. Why is everyone argueing over Battier's defense? He is in top 10 for swingmen defenders. It is his offense that I hate. He will only average 8-12 ppg. Swift was averageing 9. Not much of an increase, BUT battier is more consistent. We will just have to wait and see if we get Kyle Lowry also.</div> He scored 8-12 ppg as the 4th option on the Grizzlies. How many points do you think Rudy Gay would average starting alongside TMac, Yao, and Rafer Alston, or possibly Mike James?
I personally like the trade....I've always been a fan of Battier since Duke....he brings good defense (at the 2,3, or 4), he can shoot the ball, he's a smart player, and he's a winner........he's EXACTLY what the rockets need.....to be honest this draft was considered to be one of the weaker ones in recent years, so Gay will be a good role player most likely.....we're trying to win now, so I can totally understand picking up a proven player in Battier......I think a lot of Houston fans are having a hang over from the Texans draft (which is understandable because I haven't gotten over it either), but with the addition of a Mike James and another FA I really like the look of this team come next season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">He scored 8-12 ppg as the 4th option on the Grizzlies. How many points do you think Rudy Gay would average starting alongside TMac, Yao, and Rafer Alston, or possibly Mike James?</div> Battier was second option in Memphis after Pau Gasol. Maybe third at times after Gasol and Eddie jones.
If we sign Mike James back he will bring another scorer to the table.....not only did we get Battier from the Grizz but we got to dump loser also...so that means more cap space for FA's........ Battier makes this team better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">Battier was second option in Memphis after Pau Gasol. Maybe third at times after Gasol and Eddie jones.</div> No he wasn't. Battier took 7.7 shots per game, the offense runs through Gasol then the SG (E. Jones or Miller), then PG (Atkins, BJax, Damon) and then Battier is 4th. All Rocket fans should read this thread So Long Shane to get a perspective on the type of player and person Shane is.
