Re-read Post #2. I didn't criticize even civilians pushing the war, much less active duty military. Instead, I praised the side who were against the Vietnam war, and who slowly became the majority. Today it's the vast majority, not a slight 51% one, and includes most who were in favor of the war at the time. You know full well, but I'll remind you. You brought that up. I didn't say that.
Read the box with my words above. If you had read it, you would know that I said that pro-war loudmouth posters (who were the ones starting the threads) called those of us against the Iraq war stupid, not vice versa. (They had dozens and we had dozens, but only about 2-3 of their side said they were active duty personnel, and they were more disciplined than the rest, with the exception of that one Marine wrestler who kept threatening everyone.) These civilian posters, misspelling and screaming at us in all capital letters, would call us "stupid" all the time because we didn't believe their tales that Iraq had WMDs, would develop nuclear weapons within 5 years, had terrorists marching in the US, etc. (Yes, there was a thread about a sighting of a military force of hundreds of turbaned terrorists marching in the U.S. midwest. I called the media report ludicrous, and one guy was very angry that I would doubt that we had been invaded.) Those against entering this disastrous war posted rationally and calmly, and most of us had college degrees. It was ironic that these morons kept calling us stupid when obviously they were the stupid ones, as their screaming writing in all caps belied. Most had never served, some said they were veterans, and a tiny number, like maybe 3, said they were active duty. The active duty ones were disciplined and could spell. The rest--about half were just violent idiots. A few on your side resorted to physical intimidation, as you just wished violence upon me now in your above quote, like a baby. It's violent threats like yours (which you put into the 3rd person projecting your violent fantasy onto someone else to take the blame for doing it) that silenced most Americans and got us into this endless torture war, which Bush called a 20-year war. Most Americans, according to all polls, opposed attacking Iraq outside of UN approval, which Bush didn't ask for because the world was against him. History quickly proved which side was right. Even most Republicans now regret starting the Iraqi war. Maybe you're the exception, still wanting to beat up anyone who was right. Instead of feeling outnumbered and threatening people, maybe you should just start your prison term now, if you want one so badly.
Your reply was to basically call the millions of us draft dodgers: In response, I informed you that even conservative students (such as my dorm roommate, who debated with me about the war) did what they could to avoid the draft (such as getting advised by a draft counselor). So you changed it to say that college students of the time didn't meet your definition of draft dodgers, unless they were in college to avoid the draft: I'm glad you tried to refine your statement which called most college students of the time draft dodgers, but you still need to realize that a big motivation for all male students to fear dropping out even for 1 quarter was to avoid the draft. At some time during the 4 or more years of college, then as now, practically every male student was tempted to drop out for a quarter (to take a rest, make money, or maybe they got suspended for a low GPA). But most did not drop out, because of the draft threat, thus meeting your definition of a draft dodger (one who stayed in college to avoid a deferment). So even your refined definition labels most male students as draft dodgers. (Those who missed one lousy quarter were promptly ordered to an all-day draft exam with hundreds of other young men in their underwear in a big Federal building downtown. Bend over and get probed.) Your last sentence says that students got a deferment if called up while being a full-time student. No, they got the deferment for being a student, and weren't called up in the first place. Until they missed one quarter. True, almost all draftees reported. But few joined voluntarily. And more than half of that age group never served, because they were not drafted and did not volunteer. As for the millions of draft dodgers, I was using your initial definition of draft dodgers, when I said that most draft-age males did not serve, and you responded by saying I was on a soap box defending draft dodgers, thus calling the millions who did not serve draft dodgers. You later refined your definition, but it still includes most male students (those who ever had the motivation of not being drafted in their decision not take a certain quarter off).
You're right. When I said my pro-war dorm roommate got a high number, I meant he got a high probability of being drafted. I shouldn't have said a high number--it was a low number. I think his was like 12 and mine was like 57. Both meant you would definitely be drafted if you weren't a full-time college student, him faster than me. He simply stayed in college (and made appointments with the college-paid draft counselor on campus), avoiding the war till the draft basically ended in Dec. 1971. I eventually dropped out of college for a quarter, so I received a notice of a draft exam and reported, but wasn't drafted by the draft's end. Almost all draft-aged males decided to not join voluntarily, and the majority never served, even when you include draftees. I brought up my roommate as an example that almost all pro-war students (like Cheney and Rumsfeld) tried hard to stay out of the war. I knew plenty. Oh well. Yada yada yada. I can't argue with you guys forever. Get in your kicks at me and I'll ignore it and let the argument die. No one's going to change here. And now Maxiep has joined! Now I KNOW this thread will go on for days! I already spent 2-3 hours typing these last posts, and I'm not spending any more. Fire away at me. I'm going to spend my time reading basketball. I give this off-topic board about a minute a night.
THANK YOU (I know its a day late) for serving this country. Thank you for protecting our freedoms. Thank you for risking your lives. I wish nothing but the best for all of you. You are real heros.
I must be too thick to know wtf you're talking about. At the time, there was film of someone spitting on a returning vet. They were called baby killers and lots of other shit when they returned. To say there was only one instance of spitting....you'll have to prove it. I didn't start this thread to debate the Vietnam or Iraq war. I started it to thank vets for their service. YOU decided to make it your soapbox for your agenda. And you did it in a way that is disrespectful to vets. If you wanted to thank the draft dodgers, you could have started your own thread.
When I read this, it is so poorly written that I didn't understand what you were saying, at least based on what you say below. That being the case, my wish that you had attended a marine lesson on attitude adjustment was out of line, and I offer my apologies for that. That would be opposed to anti-war loudmouth posters? Heh, I wonder why that Marine wanted give someone a tuneup? This thread isn't about your rants about the Iraq war. On MY side? How the fuck do you know where I stand on the various wars the US has been involved in? MY SIDE simply wanted to say thanks to the vets on veterans day. I didn't make any violent threats, but it's getting more and more tempting. If some hippy-type went up to one of Iran's Republican Guards and spit on him because they don't agree with their moron leader, you don't think they would kill them? Bush tried to get the UN security council to support the invasion, but they did not. It was well known that France, Russia and China would veto any resolution to invade Iraq, so to continue down that path would have been futile. Bush DID get US Congressional approval, though, right? LOL!! So, which side was right? Like I said before, I didn't start this thread to debate the merits of any of the wars our vets fought in. I started it to thank them for their service. You're the one that decided to jump on your soapbox and go off topic.
