Why do you judge current MVP awards based on the past? That makes no sense to me, whatsoever. According to your logic, Nash could average 30/15/5, lead his team to 1st overall, yet not win the MVP award, because "3 is too much." The MVP should only be based on the current candidates. Arguments about Jason Kidd's "stolen MVP" or Nash getting more MVP's than better players from the past (not your argument, but one I hear far too often) are irrelevant and a waste of time.
I'm definitely going with Dirk for the MVP right now. He is second in the league in PER (according to knickerblogger and can play at least some defense; as well as the fact that Dirk's team has the best record. He is a better player than Nash as of right now (and doesn't have as talented a supporting cast). Off topic: Forget about Kobe, I think LeBron should have won if Bryant was not going to get it last year. I don't give a **** what anyone says about Nash, I want a makeup call on last year's MVP. And btw, I could care less if Kobe ever wins one.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why do you judge current MVP awards based on the past? That makes no sense to me, whatsoever. According to your logic, Nash could average 30/15/5, lead his team to 1st overall, yet not win the MVP award, because "3 is too much." The MVP should only be based on the current candidates. Arguments about Jason Kidd's "stolen MVP" or Nash getting more MVP's than better players from the past (not your argument, but one I hear far too often) are irrelevant and a waste of time.</div>What about the fact that his team is completely loaded with talent? Is that a bad argument? Cause quite frankly, his team is loaded. As I stated earlier, I don't know if there is a team in this league with more talent, at the very least in the starting five than his. And how about the system he's in? If it wasn't for that, he wouldn't even be known as the best point guard in the NBA. The fact is that he gets too much credit, while Mike D'Antoni and his teammates don't get enough. Do I think Nash is having an MVP type season, yes. But do I think he deserves it? God no.
At least those points are relevant to this season. That stuff you were arguing about before really didn't make any sense. For the record, I agree with huevonkiller about this year and last year. Last season I thought it was Dirk's MVP (followed by Lebron, Nash, and Kobe). This year, I think Dirk and Nash are neck and neck. Their teams have similar records (half a game difference, I think), they are both the best players in there respective positions, and are both having extroardinary statistical seasons. My first inclination was to put down Dirk, but I chose the player who's on a streak that doesn't look like it'll end any time soon.
I don't like going based on streaks though. What happens if (or when) they hit a brick wall and lose a few in a row, and Dallas keeps rolling. Will it switch then? That's why I'm not basing off streaks, otherwise Kobe wouldn't be my MVP. I'm giving it to the player who has taken a team to the next level, and has done so despite injuries to two key players (Odom and Kwame), and in the process, is contending for a top 4 spot out West. Kobe has done more with this year than most people expected him to. He's deferring more often (though his APG might not show it, his shots are down by 7 per game) and he's getting teammates involved more often. If he doesn't play the way he has this year, the Lakers don't go 27-15 right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">And how about the system he's in? If it wasn't for that, he wouldn't even be known as the best point guard in the NBA. The fact is that he gets too much credit, while Mike D'Antoni and his teammates don't get enough. Do I think Nash is having an MVP type season, yes. But do I think he deserves it? God no.</div> Are you kidding? The whole concept of the system is based around Steve Nash running the point. It's not like he's ineffective in the half court either. You're underrating his ability to make plays in a half court offense. It's not like the Suns don't run any half court sets, they just play as if there's 18-20 seconds in the shot rather than 24. Each player has an environment that they thrive in. Would Tim Duncan be more effective in a system like the Spurs or Suns?
<div class="quote_poster">P.A.P. Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Are you kidding? The whole concept of the system is based around Steve Nash running the point. It's not like he's ineffective in the half court either. You're underrating his ability to make plays in a half court offense. It's not like the Suns don't run any half court sets, they just play as if there's 18-20 seconds in the shot rather than 24. Each player has an environment that they thrive in. Would Tim Duncan be more effective in a system like the Spurs or Suns?</div>You're still completely disregarding my other point. He's got the best starting five in the NBA, the 6th man of the year, and beyond those guys, he's got Marcus Banks, a PG who could start on more than a few teams in this league, Kurt Thomas, James Jones, etc. He's still got the most talented team from the starting five on down to the 8th or 9th man on the team. And here's another thought. In Dallas he was running a very similar style of fast paced offense, but he never averaged more than 8apg there? So, the system has something to do with it, and the fact that he's got a plethora of weapons has even more to do with it. I hate how people keep giving so much credit to Nash, when it's simply not all him. Put him on a team with less talent and I really don't think he does this good. He simply has more talent than most anyone else in the league surrounding him and he's in a system where they run and act as if the shot clock is about 10sec. Open the eyes and give some credit elsewhere for a change.
No love for David Lee as a 6th man? He's averaging 11/10.7 and leads the entire league in offensive rebounds.
<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You're still completely disregarding my other point. He's got the best starting five in the NBA, the 6th man of the year, and beyond those guys, he's got Marcus Banks, a PG who could start on more than a few teams in this league, Kurt Thomas, James Jones, etc. He's still got the most talented team from the starting five on down to the 8th or 9th man on the team. And here's another thought. In Dallas he was running a very similar style of fast paced offense, but he never averaged more than 8apg there? So, the system has something to do with it, and the fact that he's got a plethora of weapons has even more to do with it. I hate how people keep giving so much credit to Nash, when it's simply not all him. Put him on a team with less talent and I really don't think he does this good. He simply has more talent than most anyone else in the league surrounding him and he's in a system where they run and act as if the shot clock is about 10sec. Open the eyes and give some credit elsewhere for a change.</div> I disregarded your other point because there's nothing to argue. He has some great talent around him. What's there to argue? In Nash's case, in Phoenix he's depended on more because he has no Michael Finley or Dirk Nowitzki that can create. When you're more dependant on to create, you're bound to get more assits. Although he has Amare along side him, you can tell that this year Amare has been more reliant on Steve Nash. Although, I don't like the guy, Charley Rosen talks about it over here. Back in 04-05, however, Amare had the ball in his hands moreon theblock looking to create, though it wasn't nearly the same as before in Dallas with Dirk and Finley also dominating the ball. How do you figure he won't be able to lead a team with less talent. In case you haven't notice, all elite teams are built around their core players, it's not his fault that management has added the right pieces around him and Amare and Shawn. You can't just put him in a situation like LA, subtract Kobe and except him to lead the Lakers. That team is specifically built and coached a certain style. Kobe has done an amazing job with the Lakers but you really don't seem to be supporting Kobe here, just degrading Nash. In Nash's case, he is having the best seasons of his career, numbers and impact wise, on the second best team in the NBA. Can the best player with an Amare, Marion and Barbosa on it not win MVP? I got the feeling even if the Suns had 2 losses that you wouldn't support Nash as MVP. Stats aside, fact is, he's had the most and impact and been the most important player on a team talented team and it's reflected by the temas record. But of course he can't win it three years in a row so lets give it to someone different for a change.
<div class="quote_poster">P.A.P. Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I disregarded your other point because there's nothing to argue. He has some great talent around him. What's there to argue?</div>Nothing to argue but it's still relevant. They're still winning becuase they're loaded with talent, not just because of Nash. And that mass of talent is also a reason why Nash is having such a good season. When you have all the offensive weapons that he has, it's hard not to rack up assists and it's also hard not to find an open shot here and there, which is also helped by the system. When they run, they get open shots, Nash included. While he's shot high percentages all his career, this is a big reason why he's shooting high once again. He's getting a lot of open jumpers and layups in transition, and that's due to the running system, and that's why he's racking up points at faster pace than he ever has. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In Nash's case, in Phoenix he's depended on more because he has no Michael Finley or Dirk Nowitzki that can create. When you're more dependant on to create, you're bound to get more assits. Although he has Amare along side him, you can tell that this year Amare has been more reliant on Steve Nash. Although, I don't like the guy, Charley Rosen talks about it over here. Back in 04-05, however, Amare had the ball in his hands moreon theblock looking to create, though it wasn't nearly the same as before in Dallas with Dirk and Finley also dominating the ball.</div>Shawn Marion isn't that bad at creating, nor is Boris Diaw. So, to say he's completely depended on to create is false. They have other playmakers, he's just the main one. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How do you figure he won't be able to lead a team with less talent. In case you haven't notice, all elite teams are built around their core players, it's not his fault that management has added the right pieces around him and Amare and Shawn. You can't just put him in a situation like LA, subtract Kobe and except him to lead the Lakers. That team is specifically built and coached a certain style. Kobe has done an amazing job with the Lakers but you really don't seem to be supporting Kobe here, just degrading Nash.</div>Fine, I'll support Kobe. No one in the MVP race has gone through what he has this season. He's lost Odom for a month and a half, Kwame for a month, Chris Mihm won't be stepping on the court this year, yet they're still winning. He's got people like Smush Parker in a starting lineup with him, who haven't been consistent at all this season. Vlad Radmanovic hasn't been anything close to what he was expected to be. Mo Evans has been inconsistent. Hell, he's been relying on a 19 year old center in Andrew Bynum for a huge part of this year as well, and he's had to fight through his inconsistencies as well. You should get the idea by now. The only consistent player, at least starting lineup wise, has been Kobe and Walton. Yet, despite inconsistencies and injuries to two very key players, the Lakers are still 27-15, and still far better than anyone thought. And why is this? Kobe Bryant. He's turned into a leader and it's shown this year. He's deferring more and getting teammates involved early and often, even if they are inconsistent. He's shown trust all season and has only taken over when necessary, as opposed to last year. You take Kobe off this squad, they're heading to the lottery, it's as simple as that. He's done a great job this year at making others better and keeping them involved, and if it wasn't for him (and Phil, must give him credit), the Lakers aren't 27-15 and on pace to win 50+.
<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dirk's playing with Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Devin Harris, etc, what's your point?</div>Who??? Marion/Stoudemire/Bell/Diaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Howard/Terry/Harris/Dampier
<div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No love for David Lee as a 6th man? He's averaging 11/10.7 and leads the entire league in offensive rebounds.</div> He's already too good to be a 6th man. 6th man is for old guys anyway.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who??? Marion/Stoudemire/Bell/Diaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Howard/Terry/Harris/Dampier</div> I agree with phunDamentalz 100%. The Suns do have a great supporting cast. Btw, Nash doesn't have as much to do with making Diaw better, he can create for himself. Marion and Amare are just straight out studs. Amare has had around 25 PER ever since he started playing his normal amount of minutes (he's got almost 24 for the season). Marion is around 22. I don't get it, Dirk is having the better statistical year and his team is in first place with weaker teammates.
<div class="quote_poster">kobe23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">MVP: Steve Nash (coz everybody loves him and doesnt take into fact that he's playing with amare and marion)</div> I don't see your point.
<div class="quote_poster">hustler Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't see your point.</div> He thinks that is who is going to win (at least if the award were voted on today), but not who deserves it.
<div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No love for David Lee as a 6th man? He's averaging 11/10.7 and leads the entire league in offensive rebounds.</div> When was the last time the 6th man award went to a rebounder/hustler type? It almost always goes to prolific scorers, even if they do little else (like Ben Gordon).
Didn't Lee start for a long period of time, when one of his teammates went down with an injury? I'm not sure if he's eligible anymore.
M.V.P: Steve Nash Rookie Of The Year: Brandon Roy Coach Of The Year: Jerry Sloan Defensive Player Of The Year: Shane Battier 6th Man: Ben Gordon Most Improved: Monta Ellis NBA Championship: Houston Rockets!
<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Nothing to argue but it's still relevant. They're still winning becuase they're loaded with talent, not just because of Nash. And that mass of talent is also a reason why Nash is having such a good season. </div> To this day, I don't understand that arguement. So, since people like to bring up past MVP's to critisize Nash, let me use the same arguement to defend him. Larry Bird had the likes of Kevin Mchale, Bill Walton, Nate Archibald, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, etc etc on his teams over his MVP years, yet he still won the award numerous times. So, because he had that talent surrounding him, it discredits him as an MVP?? It's a moot point; it's like saying Jordan didn't deserve the award because he played with the likes of Pippen and Rodman and was in the triangle offense. People are simply trying to discredit Nash because they are tired of seeing him run that system to perfection. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Fine, I'll support Kobe. No one in the MVP race has gone through what he has this season. He's lost Odom for a month and a half, Kwame for a month, Chris Mihm won't be stepping on the court this year, yet they're still winning. He's got people like Smush Parker in a starting lineup with him, who haven't been consistent at all this season. </div> If Kobe and the Lakers continue rising up in the standings, he will get more votes than last year with a doubt. However, right now it's really only between Nash and Dirk with Kobe being a little bit behind since their teams have much better records and seem unbeatable. I would love to see Kobe Bryant win it, but realistically the award's going to Dirk or Nash at this pace. I'm just really glad Wade and Bron are out of the MVP talks this year. I'm not a hater, the overhype the Heat got last year just really pissed me off and Lebron's time will come later. no one from the East deserves to win the MVP.
This year's Kobe > Last year's Nash. That said, I still don't think he tops Nowitzki or Nash this season.
