<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">To this day, I don't understand that arguement. So, since people like to bring up past MVP's to critisize Nash, let me use the same arguement to defend him. Larry Bird had the likes of Kevin Mchale, Bill Walton, Nate Archibald, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, etc etc on his teams over his MVP years, yet he still won the award numerous times. So, because he had that talent surrounding him, it discredits him as an MVP?? It's a moot point; it's like saying Jordan didn't deserve the award because he played with the likes of Pippen and Rodman and was in the triangle offense. People are simply trying to discredit Nash because they are tired of seeing him run that system to perfection. </div> I just can't believe you tried to say Dirk's cast is just as talented as Nash's.
It isn't, but honestly I feel like the difference between them isn't big enough to completely discredit Nash.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It isn't, but honestly I feel like the difference between them isn't big enough to completely discredit Nash.</div> No one said Nash should be discredited. Just that Dirk is better.
Well, a lot of the posts in the previous page focused on which surrounding cast was more talented. I agree that Dirk's probably a better MVP candidate as of now, but I don't really believe that the difference in talent level is a reason why.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well, a lot of the posts in the previous page focused on which surrounding cast was more talented. I agree that Dirk's probably a better MVP candidate as of now, but I don't really believe that the difference in talent level is a reason why.</div> Neither do I, I was just surprised that someone would say that Dirk's cast is as talented as Nash's. I also don't care if his cast was as skilled, he has had the better statistical season.
MVP: Dirk Nowitzki runner up: Kobe Bryant Rookie Of The Year: Andrea Bargnani Coach Of The Year: Phil Jackson Defensive Player Of The Year: Shane Battier 6th Man: Leandro Barbosa Most Improved: Kevin Martin/ Monta Ellis NBA Champions: Phoenix Suns All-NBA Teams: 1st Team G - Steve Nash G - Kobe Bryant F - Kevin Garnett F - Dirk Nowitzki C - Yao Ming 2nd Team G - Gilbert Arenas G - Dwyane Wade F - LeBron James F - Carlos Boozer C - Dwight Howard 3rd Team G - Jason Kidd G - Allen Iverson F - Tracy McGrady F - Tim Duncan C - Amare Stoudamire/ Chris Bosh
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I just can't believe you tried to say Dirk's cast is just as talented as Nash's.</div> What the deuce? I was just responding to Moo2k4 stating that the only reason Nash is suceeding is because of his supporting cast. His supporting cast isn't really his fault, so why is that because used to discredit him? So, since the front office surrounded him with the right players needed for him to succeed, it discredits his credibility as the most valueable player? Nash has a great supporting cast, but the Mavs have good role players and potential all-stars on thier team as well. Like I said, it's not like the Mavs have a team full of Palacio's and Yogi Stewart's. The only MVP candidate I see with a weak team is Kobe Bryant, and even if Nash was excluded from being voted because he has two MVP trophies already, Dirk would get the nod over Kobe at this point.
Actually I agree with Moo2k4, I would probally put Kobe at the top of my list now too, as he said, he's got a team with little talent (outside of Kobe and Odom) currentley sitting in the 5th seed in the West, on a 27-15 record. I think thats a more impressive feat than Dirk taking the same good Mavericks team from the last couple of seasons to yet another winning season.
<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What the deuce? I was just responding to Moo2k4 saying that the only reason Nash is suceeding is because of his supporting cast. I'm saying, his supporting cast isn't really his fault, so why is that because used to discredit him? So, because the front office surrounded him with the right players, it discredits his credibility as the most valueable player? Nash has a great supporting cast, but the Mavs have good role players and potential all-stars on thier team as well. Like I said, it's not like the Mavs have Palacio and Yogi Stewart on thier team. The only MVP candidate I see with a weak team is Kobe Bryant, and even if Nash was excluded from being voted because he has two MVP trophies already, Dirk would get the nod over Kobe at this point.</div> Josh Howard could be an All Star, but that's it. Don't use the plural form of the word when referring to the rest of the Dallas Roster (minus Dirk). I also used your comments as a pretext to emphasize that the PHX roster this year is freaking loaded. In that sense, I didn't really care about the context behind your remarks. I also might consider giving the MVP to Kobe for the reasons NTC/Moo stated, but it is a completely worthless award anyway so I don't care in the long run.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I also used your comments as a pretext to emphasize that the PHX roster this year is freaking loaded. </div> So, since Pheonix made it to the WCF with a depleted team last year, missing Amare and Kurt Thomas and playing Diaw at center, is that enough to justify that Nash deserved the award last year?
<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So, since Pheonix made it to the WCF with a depleted team last year, missing Amare and Kurt Thomas and playing Diaw at center, is that enough to justify that Nash deserved the award last year?</div> When was I talking about last year? I was referring to this current season. Dirk is a better candidate. But since you brought it up, the Suns barely beat the Lakers and Clippers; those aren't really the top teams in the West are they?
Once again, the Suns were playing with a depleted team last year, they literally had no front court whatsoever. The Lakers weren't a "dominant" team, but they were a good team nonetheless. The Clippers weren't "dominant" either but they were also a very good team last year. The Suns also stretched the Mavs to six games last year, and that series was extremely close throughout. See, my problem isn't people believing that Dirk is a better candidate. A problem is created when people hold the opinion that someone who already won 2 straight shouldn't win 3 straight because it's a "disgrace to the greats of the past". Like Chutney mentioned, each season is a new season. Why should Nash's previous awards from previous seasons be the reason for disregarding him from an MVP race in which he's at the forefront yet again?
I just hope the league doesn't waste another MVP award for the 3rd year in a row by giving it to Nash or Dirk. M.V.P: Kobe Bryant Rookie Of The Year: Brandon Roy Coach Of The Year: Avery Johnson Defensive Player Of The Year: Marcus Camby 6th Man: Leandro Barbosa Most Improved: Kevin Martin or Josh Howard. NBA Championship: Dallas Mavericks
why would it be a waste giving it to Dirk? In all honesty though, i just don't foresee Nash winning it 3 years in a row.
<div class="quote_poster">authentiq Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">why would it be a waste giving it to Dirk? In all honesty though, i just don't foresee Nash winning it 3 years in a row.</div> Dirk i not the team's MVP and is not the reason for the team's success. Josh Howard's breakout season and Avery's coaching are the main reasons. The Mavs would be even better with Duncan or KG instead of Dirk in the lineup.
As a Dallas fan, you of all people should know that Dirk is the Mavs MVP, however I just dont think he is the leagues MVP. As I said, he's leading an already good team, he hasnt really had to turn anything around.
<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Once again, the Suns were playing with a depleted team last year, they literally had no front court whatsoever. The Lakers weren't a "dominant" team, but they were a good team nonetheless. The Clippers weren't "dominant" either but they were also a very good team last year. The Suns also stretched the Mavs to six games last year, and that series was extremely close throughout.</div> How does that make Kobe and LeBron more unworthy than Nash last year? I'm not even hear to discuss last year, I don't care. I'm going to keep this brief. 2006-2007 is the only season that matters to me in this MVP discussion. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> See, my problem isn't people believing that Dirk is a better candidate. A problem is created when people hold the opinion that someone who already won 2 straight shouldn't win 3 straight because it's a "disgrace to the greats of the past".</div> What does one mean by MVP? It's an amorphous term that I'm sick of. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Like Chutney mentioned, each season is a new season. Why should Nash's previous awards from previous seasons be the reason for disregarding him from an MVP race in which he's at the forefront yet again?</div> Going by your standards of MVP, I still can't see why you go with Nash. Dirk has done it all this season (be on a winning team, and produce great statistics with respectable defense and less prolific teammates). I'd give Dirk the edge for all the reasons I have already stated.
Winning the league MVP award is like winning an Oscar. You have to earn it over a career and not based on just one good season. NBA's MVP award used to be one of the most valuable individual sports awards, but there's just no value to it anymore.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">When was the last time the 6th man award went to a rebounder/hustler type? It almost always goes to prolific scorers, even if they do little else (like Ben Gordon).</div> Still should at least be mentioned as a candidate though, which, prior to my comment, wasn't. Anyone who's top 5 in FG%, rebounding in many categories, coming off the bench and averaging a double-double should be mentioned. And Chutney, he started 12 games this season. What's the disqualification number of starts again?
<div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Still should at least be mentioned as a candidate though, which, prior to my comment, wasn't. </div> I agree. It's a shame he isn't starting -- Isiah is shooting his team in the foot with that decision. In games in which Lee plays under 30 minutes, the Knicks are 8-15. When he plays at least 30 minutes, the Knicks are 10-11. In those 21 games, he's averaging 37.2 mpg, 12.6 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 2.4 apg with a 64.2 TS%.
