Zach Collins and his return to the Blazers: ‘I’m definitely not rushing back’

And I don’t think these guys need cheerleaders. Everyone liked Meyers sure. He didn’t make a difference. I didn’t say Zach would get a bigger contract. I said he’s going to get more than some minimum one year deal like someone said. I think teams will be more excited about Zach than Meyers and Meyers keeps getting 10m a year

 

You need to look at the stats. You really need to look at the stats.

Scoring average ... advantage Meyers. Rebounding per 36 minutes ... advantage Meyers. Turnovers ... advantage Meyers. Offensive rating ... advantage Meyers. Defensive rating ... advantage Meyers. PER ... advantage Meyers. VORP ... advantage Meyers. 3-point and FT shooting ... big advantage Meyers. True shooting percentage ... advantage Meyers (along with basically every shooting metric that extends from that).

 

The fact is that metrics have never told the story of Meyers Leonard. Meyers just doesn't get the game. He looks lost out there 90% of the time. You can't say the same thing about Zach. Zach has his flaws, he has bad hands, he is too agressive and gets into foul trouble but he understands what he's supposed to be doing and where he's supposed to be on both ends of the court.

So yeah when you look at advanced metrics they may favor Meyers but Meyers didn't play against the first string as much as Zach has and Meyers didn't earn the PT Zach has. Meyers was more healthy than Zach has been and hits threes at a ridiculous rate but there is something to be said for not being completely lost all of the time. Obviously you can say that the best ability is availability but I didn't really always feel that way when Meyers was on the floor.

 

Having a guy who you can count on in the locker room makes a guy more valuable. If you don't know that, go into any workplace or environment where people aren't supportive.

You put down Meyers as a way to argue that Zach would get more than a minimum because Meyers got $10 mil. Basically, the inference ... and you keep making it ... is that Meyers was garbage. If he was, then what the heck is Zach? I mean, you can't even justify your argument by saying Zach was a lottery pick because, guess what, Meyers was picked 11th.

Your point might have merit. It takes one team to love Zach and overpay. That doesn't justify bashing a guy who hasn't played here for two years who despite his limitations gave his all and never gave the Blazers a black eye. You could have made your point without the shot at Meyers, but worse, you tried to make your point by creating a narrative based on your subjective ideas when the objective statistics tell a dramatically different story.

 

A lot of your post is fair and I can't really disagree with it.

Calvinnatt was making a direct comparison between two players, though, and it was an awful comparison in addition to being an unnecessary one. Your feeling he looked lost doesn't make him worth less than Zach. You not feeling confident in him does not make him worth less than Zach. Objectively, he was superior to Zach. And you can try to say "well, he played against the other team's scrubs." I seem to recall him scoring 30 in a playoff game, scoring nearly 30 another time against the Warriors when we needed someone to step up. Zach's never even scored 20 in a regular-season game.

 

OK lets look at stats. Tell me who is heading in the right direction.

Age 20
ZC 4.04 ppg, 3.3 rpg, .8 apg .5 bpg
ML 5.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg .5 apg .6 bpg

Age 21
ZC 6.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1 apg, 1 bpg
ML 2.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, ..5 apg, .1 bpg (.1 not 1)

Age 22
ZC 7 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.5 apg, .5 bpg
ML 5.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, .6 apg, .4 bpg

Please tell me what stats I need to look at again. And should we even start with defense, of which ML has absolutely no clue whatsoever how to play?

 

How is it an awful comparison? How on earth was Meyers first three years better than Zachs? You can brush aside him being lost half the time (he was), or that he rarely played vs starters (he didnt) or that people didnt have confidence in him (they didnt), but those are major factors.

 

Meyers suck balls.
If the metrics say he's better than Zack, then the metrics are not appropriate.
Meyers made and makes horrible decisions.
He has no feel for the game.
He was, and is, overpriced trash, which is why everyone hates him. Pay Collins $25 mil/year, and I'll hate him, too.
He's a good guy, but I can get a good locker room guy for vet min, easy.

Why are we even discussing this?

 

It’s dumb.

 

More likely Zach will sign the Qualify offer. Will assume that he will have very good season and get bigger and longer contract.

 

The numbers may not but the eye test does. I’d mostly cringe when Meyers was playing. Generally not so with Zach.

 

neil the type of guy to find out he's being cheated on and will 'try work it out' and will understand if the cheating needs to continue.

he cant, he wont, and he dont stop.

 

are you talking about Zach last season? That's when he was 22

no need to get defensive about it. You were talking about raw stats. I added a little context. Relax

personally, I think Zach will end up a better player than Meyers, assuming he can ever stay healthy. But I also don't think the gap between them will be that big

 

I'll say this the reason why their numbers are even close and by that I mean why Zach isn't blowing Meyers out of the water is because it would click for Meyers for weeks at a time. He would start asserting himself on both ends and be a real force. Meyers has more potential than Zach and sometimes Meyers would reach it and then the rest of the time Meyers would be unplayable. Guess what, because he was young, Stotts played him when he was with it and sat his ass (like Stotts should with everyone) when Meyers was playing like he'd never played before... that just happens far too often with Meyers.

I'll end my part with this. I will bet you that if Zach can get his health together, he'll play two times the minutes in his career than Meyers does. It's because people will know what they're getting with Zach and reliability might actually be the most important ability. Due to Zach's health and Meyers's inconsistency on the floor, neither of them have been very valuable in their careers... and it's unfortunate because both of them seem like they work their asses off and have great attitudes.

 

I think the better question is: what is the biggest contract you would be ok signing Collins to?

I'd do 2 years, 10 million, incentive based, 2nd year team option. Not sure if that's allowed, but that's my number!

 

It’s annoying when the numbers guys come out with claims that somehow meyers had better numbers than Zach between the ages of 20-22. This started because someone said he’d get the minimum and I said Meyers keeps getting 10m and he was NOT better than Zach his first three years. Which he wasn’t. Fact.

 

No, we're not in agreement at all. They don't get a pass on putting off follow-up imaging because they put off rehab. There's lots of general conditioning they could have had him doing within the first two months. Within 3 weeks, they should be able to tell if it's healing, or more likely healed, properly.

 

Oh so you are an orthopedic surgeon or a professional sports physio?