Zach Collins' Present and Future Thoughts

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by JDC, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    He's already been a great rim projector, and to say he won't improve offensively is foolish.
     
  2. BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94

    BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 AWOL

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    I think it would be more like 9/7 numbers
     
  3. chzbrgr

    chzbrgr Well-Known Member

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    R/iamverysmart much? Lol I watch all the games so unless you’re at practice every day no, you don’t watch 5x as much as me and a personal YouTube podcast does not make you an expert any more than anybody else. Sorry to burst your bubble. If you actually read any of my posts (which judging by your responses have gone completely over your head) I admit he has decent tools and should improve some. I just do not see a foundational type of player that (I thought he could be) and Neil and you now keep telling us he is. Collins is uncomfortable doing nothing but screening, dribble handoffs, and wide open spot up shooting... and that is supposed to instill a bunch of confidence that he will build a well rounded offensive game on that? I’m not holding my breath.

    He is good on defense unreliable to bad on offense even in his extremely limited role. He’s a role player. Does he have potential? Sure. Would I say he has the potential to be part of our big 3? Not really.
     
  4. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    I don't think you're wearing rose colored glasses, and I agree that he seems like has a little bit of skill, but he's also incredibly passive -- He kind of reminds me of Nic Batum in that regard. And the worry I have is that guys who are passive rarely become a lot more aggressive just with age. It's sort of like being shy or not: Either you are ore you aren't. You can move a little bit at the margins, but a complete personality change would be rare.
     
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  5. JDC

    JDC Well-Known Member

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    Zach was both not physically ready for the NBA and didn't have an established NBA offensive skill. It's why guys like Lauri Markkanen, Bam Adebayo and John Collins have been productive while our guy has faced a steeper learning curve.

    I still think he has a chance to be more impactful than all three though. His theoretical skillset is very valuable and I trust his work ethic and IQ enough to think he'll improve at a faster rate than the typical prospect.

    They play different positions, but I look at a guy like Otto Porter Jr.--who came in with similar strengths and weaknesses--and think Zach could have a very similar NBA progression.
     
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  6. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Lmao. I watched him all throughout college so I guess it's only 2x as much.

    He has top 5 rim protector potential, does he not. That's a foundational player. Imagine a prime DeAndre Jordan with some shooting ability, passing ability, and some post up ability. Is that really not a foundational player? Just because he's not going to be a Kristaps type of player doesn't mean he's not going to be great.

    "Collins is uncomfortable doing..."
    Yeah, of course he is. He's a 20yo rookie who's never played as a perimeter player and is now experiencing it for the 1st time as an NBA rook. That means he doesn't have the budding skill set or that he'll never get comfortable?

    He's going to be better than Nurk. He's as good of a defender and has a better offensive skillset already. However, he has to learn how to use it and add strength, which he will.
     
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  7. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Him being passive doesn't worry me, because he's 20 and a rookie. Players definitely get more aggressive with age (see one CJ McCollum). He's nothing like Batum.

    His passiveness is more than him being a rookie, it's also because he's hardly played on the perimeter before, and is now being asked to do so against NBA talent. Give him time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  8. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    He's still been as good on defense as those guys have been offensively, and Markkanen nor JCollins will ever be good defenders, while Collins child definitely be a good offensive player.
     
  9. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    I'll assume you're joking.
     
  10. H.C.

    H.C. Well-Known Member

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    Wait people are actually writing off Collins?
    Hilarious.
    Collins has shown more throughout this rookie year than I expected him to.
    Collins is also already getting respect from refs as a shot blocker.
    He's far more fundamentally sound than I expected and the game doesn't look like it's going a million miles an hour for him.

    I'd also say Collins has yet to have a play ran for him this season. As it should be.

    This is coming from someone who absolutely hated the Collins pick, and wanted og anunoby badly.
     
  11. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    Oh, Bert.
     
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  12. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    This whole notion that Zach is passive, is bullshit. Plain and simple.

    He takes what the D gives him EVERY time. He does not force shots but he certainly doesn't hesitate to shoot them either.

    As a matter of fact, he never hesitates on offense.

    So I don't know what games y'all are watching but passive isn't an adjective I'd use to describe him at all.
     
  13. BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94

    BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 AWOL

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    I’m quite shocked that Bam is a better rookie than Collins even... didn’t see that coming
     
  14. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    He's not nearly as timid as Batum was when he last played for us let alone when Batum was a rookie. The only guy more timid than Batum has got to be Leonard.
     
  15. H.C.

    H.C. Well-Known Member

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    I think that has more to do with all the undersized center/pf's or tweeners who've come into the league recently and flopped hard.
    Than you or anyone else actually having a bad take on Bam.
     
  16. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    LANNY!!!! How are you brother! It's good to see you round these parts!

    @BBert is just using a bit of sarcasm methinks.
     
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  17. JDC

    JDC Well-Known Member

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    I liked Bam quite a bit actually. Had him a tier down from Zach and didn't love his fit here, but thought he a had a clear road towards NBA success. NBA level body and physcality, good finishing tools and enough fluidity and athleticism be pretty versatile defensively.

    Also helps that Miami has a guy like Kelly Olynyk who's nearly a prefect fit alongside him.
     
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  18. chzbrgr

    chzbrgr Well-Known Member

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    So in the college game they play like 25 games (already double that in the NBA) and I watched him in college too, I went to Gonzaga for Christ's sake I think I might know what I am talking about a little bit. I know you hold yourself in very high regard but je-sus. It is impossible for someone who knows and watches basketball and the Blazers to have a differing opinion than you right?

    To get on to your ridiculous comparison. Yes, Deandre Jordan with shooting ability would be a foundational type of player. No, I don't think Collins is that player. Yes, I can confidently say he will not become prime Deandre Jordan with a jumper that much is pretty clear. (The fact that this is the best comp you can come up with for the kid doesn't make me think you actually have watched any of Collins college or pro but...) That is not to say he doesn't have a place in this league or on this team. He could one day be a solid 2-way starting caliber player on the same level as Jae Crowder or something (I know not the same position just an example of the tier of player he likely will become) but Deandre with a jumper (lol) no, he is not that.

    He's 20, he's got good defensive instincts/timing, and he's got good footwork, that's all he has going for him right now. He cant finish, cant create for himself or others, cant stretch the floor, you don't really want him taking more than one dribble, and rarely does anything with it when he has the rock. Did I expect him to take over the league as a rookie? No, of course not. Did I think he'd be capable of knocking down open 3's and playing solid defense? Yes. Has he done that? No, not really aside from the defense somewhat.

    KP and Markaanen (similar players in age, position, size and possible role) are in decidedly tougher situations where teams scheme for them, they have little to no support, and they manage to put up 10x the numbers and have 10x the impact Collins does. That could mean a couple of things, one, Collins is simply not getting the same amount of looks or the usage rate the other two, (more usage, more stats, more impact) but the looks are much more difficult than the ones Collins is getting. But it also could mean that Collins just simply hasn't done anything with the easier but less frequent looks he has been given. If he was half the player you say he is, he would be thriving in his role, he hasn't. He should be knocking down open 3's at even a league average level, he hasn't.

    Is he going to be better than Nurk? Depends on who you think Nurk is. If you think Nurk is the same guy we had last year then I would say no way, but could he become better than this year's Nurk? Sure, but there is a HUGE CHASM of difference between better than Nurk this year and prime DeAndre Jordan with a jumper like you described. You should know this, since you watch 5x more basketball than anyone else. Right?
     
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  19. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    McCollum was a volume scorer in college. Him returning to form wasn't a personality change.
     
  20. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    I like the kid...let him break a sweat and learn the games of his opponents...he has no history playing most of the guys he's thrown out against every night..he's a rookie big....he'll get stronger and the game will slow down....
     

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