<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">Alright considering the fact of what the alligations to Kobe did with his rep and what the alligations to Randolph did to almost get him traded I believe the words shock wave was rightfully used be it how many times I used it. Either way you said that they had nothing real apart incomin yet both made significant impacts on the players and there franchises so I would say that is soemthing they had in commen.</div> Not really, shockwaves are usally when the entire franchise is in a chaotic position, this is simply a big problem. SO just because both teams were in an uncomfortable position after the incidents they are SIMILAR? Not in this case because Kobe didnt get many trade rumors, there were some but not too many. Either way, the MEDIA blew up the Kobe thing to an extreme extent, it's not the case here, thus they don't have as much 'in common' as you think they do.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Not really, shockwaves are usally when the entire franchise is in a chaotic position, this is simply a big problem. SO just because both teams were in an uncomfortable position after the incidents they are SIMILAR? Not in this case because Kobe didnt get many trade rumors, there were some but not too many. Either way, the MEDIA blew up the Kobe thing to an extreme extent, it's not the case here, thus they don't have as much 'in common' as you think they do.</div> So what you are tring to tell me is when both franchise players are in legal issues and in ones case he has gone from franchise center peace to trading peace and in the others the guy is being threatened with jail time both franchises are not in a chaotic position??
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">So what you are tring to tell me is when both franchise players are in legal issues and in ones case he has gone from franchise center peace to trading peace and in the others the guy is being threatened with jail time both franchises are not in a chaotic position??</div> Is it more chaotic when your in LA or Portland? The Lakers situation is different because they are in a huge market as opposed to Portland. Kobe is a LOCKED franchise player in a a big market, Randolph is a shaky franchise player in a small market. It's not similar!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Is it more chaotic when your in LA or Portland? The Lakers situation is different because they are in a huge market as opposed to Portland. Kobe is a LOCKED franchise player in a a big market, Randolph is a shaky franchise player in a small market. It's not similar!</div> Wait how did Randolph just go from being a steal in the trade I suggested to a shacky franchise player. Either way shackly or not he is a franchise player and both rosters where in danger of losing there franchise players the situations are simliar in that extent.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">Wait how did Randolph just go from being a steal in the trade I suggested to a shacky franchise player. Either way shackly or not he is a franchise player and both rosters where in danger of losing there franchise players the situations are simliar in that extent.</div> Wow that's a great comeback- you got me biting my pen! Admit it, they are DIFFERENT! G-d almighty! Don't you realie when you've lost?
He may not be a guy you want representing your Franchise, but he's definitly a guy that I would build around on the court. Only a hand full of people can average 22 and 11 in the West, and this came in his first full season. He's only going to improve, and that's scary for the other teams. How much better can you get when you average 22 and 11 in your first season? It just shows how dangerous this guy can be on the court. He's adding a mid range shot to the game, making him a more deadly. If Portland passes on him, whoever gets him will be getting one heck of a player. One heck of a person? That's a different case. He needs the right cast around him so he doesn't get into this stuff off the court.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow that's a great comeback- you got me biting my pen! Admit it, they are DIFFERENT! G-d almighty! Don't you realie when you've lost?</div> Really that is the come back you have for a statement I make? WHat a complete waiste of a post dang. They are not different and they do have apparent areas where they are the same now either defend what yu have been saying or dont reply, and according to the definition you gave me on aim when you dont reply you know whta that means.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">Really that is the come back you have for a statement I make? WHat a complete waiste of a post dang. They are not different and they do have apparent areas where they are the same now either defend what yu have been saying or dont reply, and according to the definition you gave me on aim when you dont reply you know whta that means.</div> We're going nowhere with this. Let's stop fighting, we won't change each others minds.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">We're going nowhere with this. Let's stop fighting, we won't change each others minds.</div> Guess you are right like you said in the Clark thread we are both stubborn once we select our view points so arguing about it for 50 pages in a thread wont solve anything anyway lets get this thread back on topic considering how much its been derailed.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">He may have done all of those things, but he has had a ton of negatives off the court.</div> That's pretty ignorant. You can look at his past and jump to the conclusion that he has "off the court problems", but he's really a great guy. I know him personally, and he's learned from all the crimes that he has commited. Most of the time, they are severely blown up by the media. For example, when he was a teen he had to sell guns to make money for his family to eat that night and the media blew it up with headlines like "HS Phenom Arrested with Guns!". Now, I'm not defending the time he was arrested under the influence, but like the time that Jason Kidd hit his wife I will say that it was a learning experience. He went straight edge after that incident. With the Ruben Patterson incident, he was suspended Thursday for two games and fined $100,000 by the team and lost almost $25,000 in salary for the two-game suspension. That's about as harsh as you can get, especially considering that Randolph is still on his late-first-round rookie salary. Also, let me remind you that the person he hit was Ruben Patterson, who was just convicted of rape, and he only did so to stick up for his smaller high school aged teammate, Qyntel Woods, to whom Patterson was pushing around. We all know it was in the heat of the moment too; Pippen said "It's hard to say what really happened,'' he said. "If Zach had a chance to relive that moment he would make better choices.'' We all know Randolph was young and has learned from it. In this most incident all he did was hold back his brother. The media tries to make Zach look like an out of control pothead who causes termoil within the team, but you really can't be sucked in by that bullcrap. You have to look past that. Zach is nothing like that. Also, it's pretty narrow-minded to think that a player's off-the-court problems will affect their on-the-court performance to an extent where it makes them drop from franchise player to trade bait when their only off-the-court the court trouble is holding their brother. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Isiah Rider was a good scorer yet he ahd so many trouble off the court would you take a risk on him right now.</div> Zach has potential to be better than Isiah Rider could have been, and Rider's problems were a lot more severe than Zach's. Rider had a drug PROBLEM. The guy made a bong out of a Sprite can. Isiah Rider punched a WOMAN in public. All in all, he had an attitude and a blatant disrespect for authority that was never going to get him anywhere. How is he comparable to Randolph? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Mobely and Stevenson fit in with what the Magic are tirng to do and give a all around better team </div> Your point? Battier and Miller fit in well with the Grizzlies, but we sure as hell would trade them both for Randolph. You ask any GM in the league, and they'd rather have a big, dominant, 20/10, power forward who's only 23 over two easily replacable shooting guards in the East. It's not even comparable. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He may have questions about all that stuff yet his contract can end if he chooses to opt out after this year meaning that would give the team a lot of cap room or at least some type of manuevering room to get some type of player. With Miles big contract now on there cap they will be looking for all the cap they can get.</div> Trading Zach Randolph for cap room would be taking one step forward and two steps backwards. What would they do with the cap? Sign a new franchise player? No one better than Zach would want to sign for Portland. They already have a franchise player; his name is Zach Randolph. Next year in the West, Randolph has a great chance of being an All-Star. He also gives the Blazers a great chance of making the playoffs. Why would they ditch that for a player who just sits on the bench and takes up space for a year then gives you the cap room to go out and try to find another guy like Randolph? It doesn't make any sense. Why take the risk of trying to sign a franchise player through Free Agency when you already have a great one? Also, You're too gullible if you believe that he was ever on the brink of being traded. If you would have read the article, you would have seen that the columnist as well as Ice were just trying to generate hype around Randolph and that there was no intimation of actual trade and that the General Manager just made statements saying he dissaproved of Zach's actions. The media likes to spread rumors; you have to learn to figure out which are true and which are completely bogus like this one. Nobody would take Hill over Randolph anyway. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That was the best example to come up with at the moment so just go with it.</div> Well, it certainly was a bold one. The two are completely unrelated. Zach holds his brother back; Kobe rapes a girl. Just think of better examples before you post next time. That one statement pretty much discredited anything else you had to say in my mind. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Humprey is not a 17 points per game scorer, nor is emmett.</div> Of course not. I made that statement to mock how bogus yours were being, not to be serious. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">For such a puny insident it really sent a lot of shock waves through the orginization that last season was planning on building its franchise around the guy. While now before this alligation was shot down where planning on trading him to any team that made a decent offer.</div> All 100% lies. You should know better. It did NOT send shockwaves through the organization; it did NOT almost lead to him being traded for any team that made a "decent offer". <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you dont see what they have in commen open your eyes. Both of these alligations sent shock waves through both of the orginizations and effected them in some way until they where tossed anyway. Anyway back on topic unless you have something else to say.</div> No. The alligations against Bryant were as serious as you can get. Only murder alligations could have been worse. All Randolph did was hold his brother back in a shooting. Comprende? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Guess you are right like you said in the Clark thread we are both stubborn once we select our view points so arguing about it for 50 pages in a thread wont solve anything anyway lets get this thread back on topic considering how much its been derailed.</div> You ignored Banks, but he made some great points. Although some say that Randolph has off-the-court problems (which he doesn't), you wouldn't trade him away for nothing. He'll easily be one of the best players in the league in the next few years.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">That's pretty ignorant. You can look at his past and jump to the conclusion that he has "off the court problems", but he's really a great guy. I know him personally, and the crimes he's learned from all the crimes that he has commited. Most of the time, they are severely blown up by the media. For example, when he was a teen he had to sell guns to make money for his family to eat that night and the media blew it up with headlines like "HS Phenom Arrested with Guns!". Now, I'm not defending the time he was arrested under the influence, but like the time that Jason Kidd hit his wife I will say that it was a learning experience. He went straight edge after that incident. With the Ruben Patterson incident, he was suspended Thursday for two games and fined $100,000 by the team and lost almost $25,000 in salary for the two-game suspension. That's about as harsh as you can get, especially considering that Randolph is still on his late-first-round rookie salary. Also, let me remind you that the person he hit was Ruben Patterson, who was just convicted of rape, and he only did so to stick up for his smaller high school aged teammate, Qyntel Woods, to whom Patterson was pushing around. We all know it was in the heat of the moment too; Pippen said "It's hard to say what really happened,'' he said. "If Zach had a chance to relive that moment he would make better choices.'' We all know Randolph was young and has learned from it. In this most incident all he did was hold back his brother. The media tries to make Zach look like an out of control pothead who causes termoil within the team, but you really can't be sucked in by that bullcrap. You have to look past that. Zach is nothing like that. Also, it's pretty narrow-minded to think that a player's off-the-court problems will affect their on-the-court performance to an extent where it makes them drop from franchise player to trade bait when their only off-the-court the court trouble is holding their brother. Zach has potential to be better than Isiah Rider could have been, and Rider's problems were a lot more severe than Zach's. Rider had a drug PROBLEM. The guy made a bong out of a Sprite can. Isiah Rider punched a WOMAN in public. All in all, he had an attitude and a blatant disrespect for authority that was never going to get him anywhere. How is he comparable to Randolph? Your point? Battier and Miller fit in well with the Grizzlies, but we sure as hell would trade them both for Randolph. You ask any GM in the league, and they'd rather have a big, dominant, 20/10, power forward who's only 23 over two easily replacable shooting guards in the East. It's not even comparable. Trading Zach Randolph for cap room would be taking one step forward and two steps backwards. What would they do with the cap? Sign a new franchise player? No one better than Zach would want to sign for Portland. They already have a franchise player; his name is Zach Randolph. Next year in the West, Randolph has a great chance of being an All-Star. He also gives the Blazers a great chance of making the playoffs. Why would they ditch that for a player who just sits on the bench and takes up space for a year then gives you the cap room to go out and try to find another guy like Randolph? It doesn't make any sense. Why take the risk of trying to sign a franchise player through Free Agency when you already have a great one? Also, You're too gullible if you believe that he was ever on the brink of being traded. If you would have read the article, you would have seen that the columnist as well as Ice were just trying to generate hype around Randolph and that there was no intimation of actual trade and that the General Manager just made statements saying he dissaproved of Zach's actions. The media likes to spread rumors; you have to learn to figure out which are true and which are completely bogus like this one. Nobody would take Hill over Randolph anyway. Well, it certainly was a bold one. The two are completely unrelated. Zach holds his brother back; Kobe rapes a girl. Just think of better examples before you post next time. That one statement pretty much discredited anything else you had to say in my mind. Of course not. I made that statement to mock how bogus yours were being, not to be serious. All 100% lies. You should know better. It did NOT send shockwaves through the organization; it did NOT almost lead to him being traded for any team that made a "decent offer". No. The alligations against Bryant were as serious as you can get. Only murder alligations could have been worse. All Randolph did was hold his brother back in a shooting. Comprende?</div> How is my comment igornent you say he learns from his mistakes yet he continues to repeat them and continues to be involved with the wrong stuff or be in a bad situation even his former coach said his down fall was the life style he choose to go about. Jason Kidd beating his wife was a learning experence because he actually learned from it. You never heard anything more bad about j-kidd as a father or husband. Also again why would we want Randolph when he has had all these problems and we just traded Gooden a player that has potential to be great because of his lack of work ethic and to give more minutes to our future which is Howard. lets just say we did go about getting Randolph we would lose either him or Howard as soon as they hit free agency do to the money they would remand so we are basically screwed in the long run if we do get him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">How is my comment igornent you say he learns from his mistakes yet he continues to repeat them and continues to be involved with the wrong stuff or be in a bad situation even his former coach said his down fall was the life style he choose to go about. Jason Kidd beating his wife was a learning experence because he actually learned from it. You never heard anything more bad about j-kidd as a father or husband.</div> Zach never made the same major mistakes twice. His major mistakes were selling guns to support his family, a dui, punching his raping teammate to stick up for his smaller teammate, and holding back his brother in a shooting. He learned from all of those. It's ignorant because you don't know the kid, and I actually do. You are making assumptions off of the bullcrap that the media twists around rather than about your personal experience with him. Unless he does something completely stupid and terrible that he can't or won't learn from, you have no right to judge him. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also again why would we want Randolph when he has had all these problems</div> I walked you step by step through his problems in my earlier post, and you didn't have any response for those. You just keep using that excuse that he "has had all these problems". He's not problematic; that's just how the media wants him to seem. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and we just traded Gooden a player that has potential to be great because of his lack of work ethic and to give more minutes to our future which is Howard. lets just say we did go about getting Randolph we would lose either him or Howard as soon as they hit free agency do to the money they would remand so we are basically screwed in the long run if we do get him.</div> First of all, let's get some commas. Upon first reading that, I thought you said that Gooden had the potential to be great because of his lack of work ethic. Second of all, the GM's are smart people; give them more credit than that. When you make trades like Mobley/Stevenson for Randolph, it's to get the best player available. Positions are not an issue because you could always move players around or trade them away. Who says Howard is untradable? Who says they wouldn't trade Randolph? Who says that Randolph and Howard wouldn't resign? Who says that Randolph wouldn't sign an extension, start over Howard for a year and teach him a lot about the game and about how to avoid trouble off-the-court for a year or two and then get shipped out when Howard starts to come into his own? There's so many possibilities that I don't know why you would even question that. In this debate, the focuss is talent, not positions. Anyway, you really ignored a lot of what I said. Are you giving up on your position?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Zach never made the same major mistakes twice. His major mistakes were selling guns to support his family, a dui, punching his raping teammate to stick up for his smaller teammate, and holding back his brother in a shooting. He learned from all of those. It's ignorant because you don't know the kid, and I actually do. You are making assumptions off of the bullcrap that the media twists around rather than about your personal experience with him. Unless he does something completely stupid and terrible that he can't or won't learn from, you have no right to judge him. I walked you step by step through his problems in my earlier post, and you didn't have any response for those. You just keep using that excuse that he "has had all these problems". He's not problematic; that's just how the media wants him to seem. First of all, let's get some commas. Upon first reading that, I thought you said that Gooden had the potential to be great because of his lack of work ethic. Second of all, the GM's are smart people; give them more credit than that. When you make trades like Mobley/Stevenson for Randolph, it's to get the best player available. Positions are not an issue because you could always move players around or trade them away. Who says Howard is untradable? Who says they wouldn't trade Randolph? Who says that Randolph and Howard wouldn't resign? Who says that Randolph wouldn't sign an extension, start over Howard for a year and teach him a lot about the game and about how to avoid trouble off-the-court for a year or two and then get shipped out when Howard starts to come into his own? There's so many possibilities that I don't know why you would even question that. In this debate, the focuss is talent, not positions. Anyway, you really ignored a lot of what I said. Are you giving up on your position?</div> I am taking in most of what you have said, (notice the coma) but if Howard has come into his own by the time he hits free agency how will the Magic have enough money to resign both of them, not to mention Nelson as well, and other young talent like Bogans? I do not know him so my judgement has come purly from the things I have seen from him. Although I never insulted him as a person, but manily the mistakes he has made you seem to think I am taking a personal shot at him by talking about his mistakes. Who is to say the magic will aquire him? or resign both? who is to say he will not bust his knee cap or hurt his ankle and never be able to play the same way again? All we have to go upon is the present, and what we think may happen in the future and that is what I have gone upon. Although the media also tends to over rate things they always have to have some starting marterial if he never caused a problem then they would not have all these stories.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">I am taking in most of what you have said, (notice the coma) but if Howard has come into his own by the time he hits free agency how will the Magic have enough money to resign both of them, not to mention Nelson as well, and other young talent like Bogans?</div> First of all, there are way too possibilities to list of what can happen between now and the time that Howard's rookie contract is up. Do you remember when Kenyon Martin was picked #1 in 2000? Well, this year was his free agency year and look how much the Nets team has changed. They lost their two best players, Marbury and Van Horn. They added Jason Kidd. They went to two NBA finals. Then they traded Martin away for three first rounders as well as a plethora of other deals. You have no idea what the Magic franchise will look like then. How do you know that with Randolph they wouldn't win the title in the next few years? If you look too far to the future you forget that the present is what's important, and you lose a lot of games. Second of all, Bogans had a mediocre rookie season and Nelson is a late-first-round rookie who has not played one game yet. Don't think that they'll be good enough to demand big contracts in the future. You have no idea how they will perform. All the signs indicate that they're bothing heading for nothing more than average NBA careers. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I do not know him so my judgement has come purly from the things I have seen from him. Although I never insulted him as a person, but manily the mistakes he has made you seem to think I am taking a personal shot at him by talking about his mistakes.</div> I realize where you get your judgement, but I don't realize why your judgement of him having "off-the-court" problems that really affect his trading value stays the same, even after I explained what every single one of those problems was and what the reason for it was. You say that you are not insulting him, but you don't realize that giving him those lables is insulting him. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who is to say the magic will aquire him? or resign both? who is to say he will not bust his knee cap or hurt his ankle and bnever be able to play the same way again? All we have to go upon is the present, and what we think may happen in the future and that is what I have gone upon.</div> Hmm... what's your point? That's the point I just made. You're defeating yourself. The future is indefinite, and in the present Randolph is the better player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">I realize where you get your judgement, but I don't realize why your judgement of him having "off-the-court" problems that really affect his trading value stays the same, even after I explained what every single one of those problems was and what the reason for it was. You say that you are not insulting him, but you don't realize that giving him those lables is insulting him.</div> I say that not as a label I have given him, but as I look at it if I am a possible GM and tring to deside if I do this trade. He is a superstar and will be great like you have said, but remember Wallace teams new if they got him they would be good, but many where scared to take a risk on him. That is sort of what I am saying with Randolph. Although there situations are not the exact same thing as Wallace had a longer time to make his reputation and Randolph has not lead the league in technicals GM's may look at it in the same light. edit: anyway that is my view point in the matter I am leaving for the night now so if I dont respond that is why.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">I say that not as a label I have given him, but as I look at it if I am a possible GM and tring to deside if I do this trade. He is a superstar and will be great like you have said, but remember Wallace teams new if they got him they would be good, but many where scared to take a risk on him. That is sort of what I am saying with Randolph. Although there situations are not the exact same thing as Wallace had a longer time to make his reputation and Randolph has not lead the league in technicals GM's may look at it in the same light.</div> You keep cutting these GM's short. A GM would look beyond this and really look into his troubles and would even talk to Randolph himself about it. You also keep making inane comparisons with Randolph. He's nothing like Wallace. Wallace was the NBA's wild-child - a Dennis Rodman Jr. type of player. He had no respect for the league's authority figures, he would confront officials in parking lots and make threats at them if he didn't get his way, and like you said he led the NBA in technicals. He was a loose canon on the court, but his troubles didn't really hold true for his off-the-court life. His problems were problems that affected his play. Don't you see that his situation is nothing like Zach's, and every single GM should know that?
I would really like Zach Randolph on the Magic, but like Voodoo said, it likely won't happen. I don't think that Randolph will get dealt. If I was the Magic GM and had the opportunity to trade Stevenson and Mobley to get Randolph, I would do it in a heartbeat. Remember that Stevenson tried to get a contract from anyone this offseason, no one wanted him, so he resigned with us. We have so much depth at SG/SF, that it wouldn't really matter if we lost 2 of them. Remember, if worse comes to worse, we can start franchise at the 2 and Jameer at the 1. We would have to give them way more than that. Bogans and Jameer won't get big money. The biggest they would get, and I doubt they'd even get that, is the MLE.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">Also again why would we want Randolph when he has had all these problems and we just traded Gooden a player that has potential to be great because of his lack of work ethic and to give more minutes to our future which is Howard. lets just say we did go about getting Randolph we would lose either him or Howard as soon as they hit free agency do to the money they would remand so we are basically screwed in the long run if we do get him.</div>Let me ask you a question: If Minnesota wants to trade Orlando Kevin Garnett for Dwight Howard, would you think it's a good deal for the Magic? I would. In this league, teams like Orlando which have failed for a few seasons would rather go for present than future. Garnett is a sure thing, while Howard might not even be in the league four years down the road. The reason I'm giving you this example is because Randolph is just like Garnett: A sure thing. So what if Howard is full of potential and might be great down the road? Is there any guarantee that he will have Randolph-type numbers 6 years later? Meanwhile, Randolph will continue to improve and eventually grow into one of the best forwards in the league. Why shouldn't you want him? The fact that you'd rather take Howard over Randolph shows how much you know about the administrative issues in the NBA.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me ask you a question: If Minnesota wants to trade Orlando Kevin Garnett for Dwight Howard, would you think it's a good deal for the Magic? I would. In this league, teams like Orlando which have failed for a few seasons would rather go for present than future. Garnett is a sure thing, while Howard might not even be in the league four years down the road. The reason I'm giving you this example is because Randolph is just like Garnett: A sure thing. So what if Howard is full of potential and might be great down the road? Is there any guarantee that he will have Randolph-type numbers 6 years later? Meanwhile, Randolph will continue to improve and eventually grow into one of the best forwards in the league. Why shouldn't you want him? The fact that you'd rather take Howard over Randolph shows how much you know about the administrative issues in the NBA.</div> The one big problem with your little comparison is that KG is the current League MVP and multy time all star while on the other hand Randolph is not. Then with the fact that was added that when the Magic traded Gooden because of Howard they where basically stating that they are willing to wait forhim to develope.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">The one big problem with your little comparison is that KG is the current League MVP and multy time all star while on the other hand Randolph is not. Then with the fact that was added that when the Magic traded Gooden because of Howard they where basically stating that they are willing to wait forhim to develope.</div> You are completely missing the point of Trip's comparison. Read this quote of his - "The reason I'm giving you this example is because Randolph is just like Garnett: A sure thing." That say all you need to know about his comparison. We all know that Randolph is not like Garnett. Infact, for two players who play the same position it's pretty rediculous how different their games are. However, his comparison was to show you that you take the sure thing over the project in a case like this. Besides, who says Randolph and Howard couldn't co-exhist anyway? Gooden wasn't getting anything done with the Magic anyway. If they would have taken Shaun Livingston, then there's a good chance that Gooden would have been shipped off anyway. Gooden is no Randolph either. I don't know why you insist that with Randolph you can't have Howard. Why not?
