Repealing Obamacare

[Rastapopoulos]

I still don't think this will hurt Repubs with Trump's base. They don't really get policy, they just get that people they hate hate Trump and will be happy so long as he's tweetin'. Of course, it might hurt Repubs a little when their base starts to die off, but I guess the heroin epidemic was doing that anyway.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I still don't think this will hurt Repubs with Trump's base. They don't really get policy, they just get that people they hate hate Trump and will be happy so long as he's tweetin'. Of course, it might hurt Repubs a little when their base starts to die off, but I guess the heroin epidemic was doing that anyway.

Oh Rasta, you are so bad! The shitstorm this thread is going to generate from our conservative brethren just might be the most entertaining thread of 2017....

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Denny Crane]

Buh bye ObamaCare.

And that's /thread

Except for the inevitable complaining about it.

 

[MarAzul]

I think it should simply be repealed. Then perhaps make it possible for free market place competition. Like no artificial boundary restrictions like state borders, prevent collusion, like diving up counties or states. Make it possible for pools of people to self insure using cooperatives across state boundaries.

They can not undo the harm done to me and millions in the same boat with me, but we might feel a lot better if the system was done in accordance with the constitution. Not a word in there
making medical care or healthcare being federal government business, the executive or Congress. If you wish to make it so, then the amendment process damn near guarantees it will be bipartisan.

 

[Stevenson]

The problem is, there really is no simple answer. "Repeal" causes a whole host of other problems.

To wit, my brother benefits greatly from Obamacare. He's over 60, in poor health, makes little money, but at least he can afford insurance now. And he's insured. If there is a repeal, he will have pre-existing conditions, be uninsurable, won't be able to afford insurance, and will end up in emergency rooms.

Your insurance and mine will go up even more when this starts to happen to millions.

Similarly, I benefit from it too, even though I am clearly subsidizing people like my brother. My 23 year old daughter is still on our insurance, and I can shop for insurance, despite my own pre-existing condition.

 

[Denny Crane]

What good is insurance if you're poor and the deductible is $10,000+?

INSURANCE is fools' gold.

HEALTH CARE has nothing to do with insurance.

See the VA, for one.

 

[Stevenson]

MarAzul - You are mistaken that you think it needed to specifically "be in the Constitution." Regulating healthcare is clearly within the Commerce Clause powers of the legislative branch.

 

[riverman]

I'll say this, we just tried upgrading our coverage before the holidays wanting to switch dental insurance and since this threat of killing off Obamacare has come about, the phone lines are on endless hold.....we can't get through...wife tried for hours...put on hold...it's panic across the board and they don't have the staff to handle the traffic as people want coverage so they can file income taxes....real shit storm

 

[riverman]

MarAzul - You are mistaken that you think it needed to specifically "be in the Constitution." Regulating healthcare is clearly within the Commerce Clause powers of the legislative branch.

There are so many examples of affordable healthcare systems it's weird it's even up for debate in this country...the GOP hasn't come up with an alternative after 6 years of trying. When an airborn virus threatens everyone's health like SARS did in several countries....maybe we'll start to value public health a bit more.
Seems we treated big pharma and medical costs like real estate....inflated the prices through the roof.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

What good is insurance if you're poor and the deductible is $10,000+?

INSURANCE is fools' gold.

HEALTH CARE has nothing to do with insurance.

See the VA, for one.

Denny's a communist! He wants everyone to have what Vets have - just like the NHS in England!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

GOP to defund Planned Parenthood in ObamaCare repeal

 

[Denny Crane]

Denny's a communist! He wants everyone to have what Vets have - just like the NHS in England!

What I want is for people to pay for the services they use, as they use them. Not be mandated to fork over a huge % of the economy to wall street companies, known as insurance companies. Cut out the middleman. The post office model (people buy stamps, pay for shipping, but at cost).

But it's you that's defending the insurance scam. Why is that?

 

[Denny Crane]

GOP to defund Planned Parenthood in ObamaCare repeal

Awesome.

There's a lot of similar spending that needs to be repealed. PBS, too.

 

[e_blazer]

Until someone does something about health care costs, there's no good or affordable solution to health care insurance. People talk about the government insurance programs in other countries, but it's hardly apples to apples given the huge differences in health care costs. If Trump wants to take aim at a swamp, dive into the health care industry. Of course, good luck with that given the stranglehold the health care lobby has on DC.

 

[Denny Crane]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/commerce_clause

The Commerce Clause refers to Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution, which gives Congress the power “to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes.”​

The Constitution enumerates certain powers for the federal government. The Tenth Amendment provides that any powers that are not delegated to Congress by the Constitution are reserved for the states. Congress has often used the Commerce Clause to justify exercising legislative power over the activities of states and their citizens, leading to significant and ongoing controversy regarding the balance of power between the federal government and the states.​

It says "regulate health insurance" right there in big bold font.

 

[MARIS61]

MarAzul - You are mistaken that you think it needed to specifically "be in the Constitution." Regulating healthcare is clearly within the Commerce Clause powers of the legislative branch.

Taxing and "fining" Real Americans to pay for it while restrictingeliminating their right to choose their own plan, their own doctor, or not to have insurance at all, is not in anyone's power. Maybe in China, but not by any stretch of the imagination in America.

 

[MARIS61]

Awesome.

There's a lot of similar spending that needs to be repealed. PBS, too.

PBS, while having a long history of being a mouthpiece for "liberal ideas" is still far too valuable of a resource to Real Americans to be cast aside.

There are already strict guidelines tied to the funding which require the presentation of opposing viewpoints and impartiality.

They've simply not been enforced. Like surrogate cities, they just need to be brought back to reality.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

What I want is for people to pay for the services they use, as they use them. Not be mandated to fork over a huge % of the economy to wall street companies, known as insurance companies. Cut out the middleman. The post office model (people buy stamps, pay for shipping, but at cost).

But it's you that's defending the insurance scam. Why is that?

Hey, I come from England - the NHS is awesome. You yanks have the worst healthcare system in the developed world. I'm totally for your idea of nationalizing healthcare. I just wondered if you knew that it's the exact opposite of libertarianism.

 

[MarAzul]

MarAzul - You are mistaken that you think it needed to specifically "be in the Constitution." Regulating healthcare is clearly within the Commerce Clause powers of the legislative branch.

Yes I know many think that way, including my own representative. However, if that clause is so wide ranging in meaning then the 10 amendment has no meaning, Indeed there is no need for the amendment procedures. I do not think that is the origin intent of the Commerce clause, nor the intent you must infer by the existence of the amendment process and the 10th amendment.

 

[Stevenson]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/commerce_clause

The Commerce Clause refers to Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution, which gives Congress the power “to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes.”​

The Constitution enumerates certain powers for the federal government. The Tenth Amendment provides that any powers that are not delegated to Congress by the Constitution are reserved for the states. Congress has often used the Commerce Clause to justify exercising legislative power over the activities of states and their citizens, leading to significant and ongoing controversy regarding the balance of power between the federal government and the states.​

It says "regulate health insurance" right there in big bold font.

This is the danger of someone not knowing what they are talking about cutting and pasting articles. There is 200 years of constitutional precedent on what the Commerce Clause is and does and how it is to be applied - from rulings by justices way smarter than you and me.

That the Congress has the power to regulate insurance is not even a legal issue, frankly.

 

[Denny Crane]

PBS, while having a long history of being a mouthpiece for "liberal ideas" is still far too valuable of a resource to Real Americans to be cast aside.

There are already strict guidelines tied to the funding which require the presentation of opposing viewpoints and impartiality.

They've simply not been enforced. Like surrogate cities, they just need to be brought back to reality.

It wouldn't be cast aside. They pay for it with telethons and sponsors as they do now.

 

[Denny Crane]

This is the danger of someone not knowing what they are talking about cutting and pasting articles. There is 200 years of constitutional precedent on what the Commerce Clause is and does and how it is to be applied - and by people way smarter than you and me.

That the Congress has the power to regulate insurance is not even a legal issue, frankly.

I know all about the precedent.

ObamaCare came down to one vote, and Roberts changed his mind at the last minute. Not because the law is constitutional, but rather to keep the court from getting involved.

Elections have consequences. Buh bye ObamaCare.

 

[Denny Crane]

Hey, I come from England - the NHS is awesome. You yanks have the worst healthcare system in the developed world. I'm totally for your idea of nationalizing healthcare. I just wondered if you knew that it's the exact opposite of libertarianism.

It is not the opposite of Libertarianism. People don't have to pay for it or use it. They are free to hire a doctor directly or buy private insurance. Not $.01 in tax to pay for it.

 

[MARIS61]

Hey, I come from England - the NHS is awesome. You yanks have the worst healthcare system in the developed world. I'm totally for your idea of nationalizing healthcare. I just wondered if you knew that it's the exact opposite of libertarianism.

It's also the opposite of Obamacare, which is basically a tool for allowing the insurance companies to tax Real Americans, with the US Government serving only as "money launderer".

 

[MARIS61]

This is the danger of someone not knowing what they are talking about cutting and pasting articles. There is 200 years of constitutional precedent on what the Commerce Clause is and does and how it is to be applied - from rulings by justices way smarter than you and me.

That the Congress has the power to regulate insurance is not even a legal issue, frankly.

Obamacare does not regulate insurance companies, or even insurance products, other than require a few minimum quality assurances.

Obamacare DOES regulate the personal freedoms and basic rights of Real Americans that are guaranteed by The Constitution to be above government interference.

 

[Denny Crane]

More on Roberts' decision. It was all about judicial restraint.

It seems he wrote both the decision and the most of the dissent.

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/03/roberts_wrote_both_obamacare_opinions/

 

[Rastapopoulos]