Free Agent Chinanu Onuaku, Cameron Oliver, Gary Payton II agree to Training Camp Deals with Portland

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by BonesJones, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    3,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    Hakeem is the obvious answer but he’s not available. There’s are a ton of ex players and bigs who have made careers out of coaching young bigs. Patrick Ewing was doing it for a while too.
     
  2. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    11,558
    Likes Received:
    14,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I could easily ask the opposite; name one big that went elsewhere and improved.

    I prefer to dig a little deeper though. Our staff has done fine with the “quality” they’ve been given.
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  3. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    11,558
    Likes Received:
    14,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That’s my point. Hakeem, Grgurich, etc. The best specialized coaches are guys not employed by an NBA team. Olshey has always mentioned that the Spurs are his model franchise. Popovich has always been ahead of the curve, and that includes his coaching staff. I don’t see anything wrong with not wasting a spot on a guy that can only coach one thing, especially when there isn’t any solid evidence that he makes a significant impact with that one thing.
     
  4. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    18,363
    Likes Received:
    21,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You have a strange definition of "almost identical:

    upload_2018-9-4_14-9-59.png
    upload_2018-9-4_14-8-24.png

    PER = better, TS% = better, FTr = better, ORB% = better, DRB% = better, TRB% = better, AST% = better, STL% = better, BLK% = better, USG% = lower, WS/48 = better, OBPM = better, DBPM = better.

    Other than TOV%, he wasn't better at anything in 2o17-18 than he was during Nurk Fever (his OWS, FWS amd VORP were only higher, not better, because they are a function of minutes played).

    He beat out Meyers Leonard and Noah Vonleh for minutes. He did so because of his defense. He had a HORRIBLE season offensively. But, he's young and there is still time to get him the help he needs.

    The fact that he barely played isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of our coaching staff. A lot of guys less athletic than Swanigan have had successful NBA careers. I don't expect him to ever be a starter, but with his skill set and motor, he could develop into a solid back up - with the right coaching...

    I'm pretty sure there was more to my argument than that, but when guys like Collins show no improvement year over year on the offensive end and Swanigan looks great one year and shitty the next, that's not called progress.

    Or maybe someone to work with him on his game.

    Again, name one POR big man that improved significantly, especially on the offensive end, since Kim Hughes was fired. Go ahead, just one, that's all I ask.

    Meyers - nope, he was showing improvement under Hughes but immediately backslid after Hughes was fired.

    Vonleh - nope. Never developed a single reliable offensive move while here.

    Plumlee - nope. Never developed a single offensive move while here.

    Ed Davis - nope. Left here as the same player he was when he arrived here.

    Nurk - see above.

    Collins - a work in progress, it's not too late.

    Swanigan - no improvement, yet.

    And, again, I also ask - what's the downside of hiring a proven big man coach?

    BNM
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    18,363
    Likes Received:
    21,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of the top of my head, Bob Thorton. Roy Rogers is another good one. There are more, but you said I can't use google, and it's not like they are household names.

    BNM
     
  6. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    11,558
    Likes Received:
    14,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You ignored what I said about Nurk, and how he played post all star, so I’m going to ignore you as well.

    As for this question, I don’t know, ask all the other coaches in the NBA with the same philosophy.
     
  7. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    18,363
    Likes Received:
    21,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How is it "wasting a spot"? There is no limit on how many assistant coaches you can have. There are, in effect, an infinite number of spots. It's not like we need to fire someone else if we hire a dedicated, proven big man coach.

    BNM
     
    UKRAINEFAN and BBert like this.
  8. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    18,363
    Likes Received:
    21,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's split about half and half. But, name another team that has so many young big men on their current roster that also has a bad track record of developing young big men?

    Again, what's the downside? Are you happy with the way our big men have developed?

    BNM
     
  9. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    3,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    I don’t know the answer to this but is there a limit to coaching spots? I don’t consider it wasting a spot. I’ve always thought that if Paul Allen could buy one thing it should be having as good of a coaching staff as money could buy.

    I mean chances are pop isn’t available, I’m not that out of the real word lol.
     
  10. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    11,558
    Likes Received:
    14,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah Thorton did wonders with Papagiannis. Or wait, maybe Papagiannis just wasn’t good enough on his own?
     
  11. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    11,558
    Likes Received:
    14,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I’m happy with how Nurkic and Collins have developed, our only two bigs worth a shit.
     
  12. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    18,363
    Likes Received:
    21,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So, the fact that Papagiannis sucks completely negates the work Thorton did with Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph? And, it's not just about elevating the play of your stars, it' about turning guys like Kosta Koufas, Maresse Speights and Willie Cauley-Stein into solid contributors.

    BNM
     
  13. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    3,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    Really? I was disappointed with Nurk most of last year, it wasn’t til February or so he seemed to get things together. Now I do think there’s something to he had too adjust to losing weight.

    Collins, I have no idea... The talent seems to be there, his bbiq seems good, but I need to see a lot more.
     
  14. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    18,363
    Likes Received:
    21,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not. Nurk is still a work in progress an Collins is totally lost on offense. They both need help to reach their potential and them reaching their potential is the key to success for this franchise. Why not at least try to get them that help? Again, what's the downside? You keep avoiding that question. So, I keep asking it.

    BNM
     
    BBert likes this.
  15. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    11,558
    Likes Received:
    14,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You’re asking me what’s the downside, but I’m having a hard time seeing the upside. There’s no evidence that hiring a “proven” big man coach would actually make our bigs that much better.

    Instead of worrying about coaching, we should be worried about getting better talent. I like our coaching staff. I think they’re a big reason Portland has overachieved, relative to the roster, the past couple of years. It’s not just Dame.
     
  16. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    41,645
    Likes Received:
    27,887
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Big man coach...hell yeah...I'm all in! Sheed...Laimbeer...Ewing....there's just no downside to making that move!
     
  17. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    3,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    Why can’t we do both though? Have a great coaching staff for player development and try to get the best talent.
     
    UKRAINEFAN likes this.
  18. Cippy91

    Cippy91 Habitual Line Stepper

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    8,943
    Likes Received:
    6,658
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Haven’t read much of this thread yet but isn’t onuaku the guy out of those three we would want to give a chance if any? Maybe a two way contract?
     
  19. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    41,645
    Likes Received:
    27,887
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bigs can also afford to hire the best guys in the biz in the offseason....Meyers actually has done that since last season and he did improve last season. It's not like these guys are cash poor college kids. Dwight Howard hired Sheed one offseason to work with him...the Lopez bros hired Alajuwan to work with them..if they want to be the best, they all can pay for some off season clinics. CJ hired Steve Nash a couple of summers ago for some pointers.
     
    TorturedBlazerFan likes this.
  20. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    3,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    I guess my thinking is this, 7 foot tall people see things differently, have to move differently and ultimately are much different as athletes then even 6 foot 6 guys. I’ve heard bigs say, that having a coach the same size as you helps a lot because they have a much better understanding of how you move, of what it takes for you to be in the right positions. They see the same things you see. It’s a matter of perspective. Hiring a guy who’s a big, who has experience, and hopefully understands what the big guys need to do, well I think he can help developing players by having the experience to say hey, this move won’t work like this, and explain to them how to make it work.

    It’s similar to a guard getting advice or coaching from other guards.

    Does it mean that every 7 footer that comes through will get better? No. I do think it really helps their chances to develop good habits, to have a mentor that see’s the world from way up there as opposed to down here...

    I see how it could help, even though it may not. I don’t see how it hurts them though. At worst its a net 0, with a chance of a net positive.
     

Share This Page