Let's examine what actually happened in Philly: Hinkie took over in 2013. The 76ers were coming off a disappointing season in which they missed the playoffs after making it the previous two years. They had the #11 pick. On a side not we are starting with the #24 pick so not as good pick wise but in terms of value in trades I think we probably have a little more in terms of trade power with Dame and CJ. Hinkie traded their All-Star PG Jrue Holiday for the 6th pick in that draft and a top-5 protected pick in the 2014 draft. 2013 pick 6: Nerlens Noel (Bad Pick) 2013 pick 11: Michael Carter-Williams (Even though he sucks now I can't really call the ROY a bad pick and drafting him led to a good trade later) The rest of that off season and season was spent signing a bunch of scrubs and trading vets for 2nd round picks. 19 wins 2014 pick 3: Joel Embiid (Great pick now) 2014 pick 12 (via New Orleans pick #10 and a trade with Orlando): Dario Saric (Great pick now) The 2014 draft was the key to this whole thing. Both players have turned out great but without them not playing for two years it wouldn't have led to them being able to tank as well the following years. How do you think this fan base would treat a center drafted that high that didn't play for two years because of injury? The 76ers really wanted a top-2 pick to get Wiggins or Parker and while having the 2nd worst record fell to 3rd. During that summer they traded Thad Young to Minnesota as part of the Wiggins/Love trade for a top-10 protected 1st rounder in 2015. At the deadline they traded their best player (MCW) for what was basically the Lakers pick from Phoenix which was a really good asset. That trade was a great one considering how MCW has played since. 18 wins 2015 pick #3: Jahlil Okafor (Bad Pick) That summer they made another great trade that you can only do if you have cap space. They took on a bunch of crap from the Kings for 1st round pick swap rights in the 2017 draft (which they used to move up from 5 to 3) and a 2019 unprotected 1st round pick. What a stupid trade for the Kings! The team was awful though that year 10 wins At the end of that season they forced Hinkie out even though he had set the franchise up so well that even a bad GM could've succeeded. He was there for 3 seasons and his teams were 47-199. There is no doubt that Hinkie would have taken Ben Simmons so I count that as his pick too even though he wasn't there. At that point the tanking hadn't worked at all and Embiid and Saric hadn't even played yet. Here is the main problem with Portland trying to duplicate it: If you make a good pick and get a game changer too early in the process you risk winning too many games and not getting a high enough pick the next year. So what do you do? Do you draft only projects that will take a couple years to develop but could flame out of the league? Do you take the best player and risk getting too good too fast? The 76ers had the absolute perfect storm of crap happening that turned to gold later on. How on Earth do you duplicate that? They wasted the #6 pick in the first year by taking Noel but by taking Noel they ensured being bad later on. How many players win ROY and then are almost out of the league a few years later but you just happened to trade him while he still had value? How many centers don't play for two years allowing them to tank even further and then all of a sudden when healthy become the next coming of Hakeem Olajuwon? Not to mention the fact that if they would have gotten a top-2 pick that year they wouldn't have Embiid right now they'd have Wiggins or Parker. How many international players wait two years to come over allowing your team to tank more? How many times does making another horrible pick at #3 the following year turn out to not devastate the franchise? On top of all that they changed the lottery odds so starting in the 2019 draft there isn't as much value in tanking. What if we get the #1 pick and it isn't a year with a stud like Simmons? All of this is why it is way more likely to end up being the Kings or Suns at the end of this than the 76ers. It is also why I think getting lucky with a Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Rudy Gobert, Greek Freak, or Draymond Green outside of the lottery is just as likely if not more so. Despite making the playoffs the last 5 years the Blazers managed to get a lottery pick which they used on Collins. He's gotta become a good player (jury is still out) and Olshey has to hit a home run on a non lottery pick at some point. Last year with the 24th pick the Jazz managed to get up to 13 to get Donovan Mitchell and completely changed the route of their franchise. It is possible to improve still.
Nah, I'm not buying these lame reasons. You are describing the Kings and Suns, not a team that has made the playoffs 5 straight years. You can't make stuff up just to prove a point. The defense was 7th in rating this year. That is not lazy. Fast breaks aren't a measure of laziness either, it is a style of play.
Imagine if you will, a 10-man lineup of: Lonzo Ball/Wade Baldwin Markelle Fultz/Anfernee Simons Brandon Ingram/Gary Trent Jr. Dario Saric/Kyle Kuzma Zach Collins/Jusuf Nurkic Is that a group that could potentially compete for a championship a few years down the road as Lebron and the Warriors begin to drop off? Looking at it laid out this way, I'm kind of torn.
Maybe, because you’d also have 3 to 4 more top five picks. Of course, I wouldn’t be able to enjoy it much due to having gouged my eyes out to avoid having to look at Ball’s fugly shot.
IMO rebuilds work for teams who have the luxury of adding a free agent to the mix once the rebuild is complete. The FA is needed to truly make them contenders. In Boston and LA it will work. We will see about Philly.
I'm not sure if what you describe is a weak culture or a weak bench. I've already stated my opinion on NO's roster building - so you can probably guess my vote.
Tanking is for losers....fuck tanking...and the lottery is a crap shoot. Build a core with an identity and compete
You need 2 things for that kind of rebuild: a front office who can accurately scout young talent and a coach who can develop young talent. I don't see the current Blazer braintrust as qualified for the job. YMMV.
Anybody who thinks losing 60 games a season to draft Lonzo Ball or Fultz or a Thomas Robinson at #5 ahead of Lilllard is in some serious denial ...
Stotts has done a decent job of developing young talent. As to accurate scouting, the scenario I listed in post #63 would involve (hopefully) benefiting from other teams' scouting.
Absolutely true. Tankers always look at the lottery winners like Philly (who still haven’t won anything, BTW) and never the incessant rebuilders like the Kings. Consider The TWolves: After something like 13 years in the lottery and getting two top picks in KAT and Wiggins, it still took signing Butler to haul them into the playoffs and a first round loss. And now Butler wants out because his teammates aren’t dedicated to doing the hard work it takes to win. Losing begets more losing more often than not.
No tanking... Bingo Bango Bongo So true and for those that have played any kind of competitive sport and have a true competitive spirit and drive, always play to win, even if they are not predicted to do well. To me thats a Real hallmark of a true athlete. The sprinters running the 100 meters all sprint to win.
Seems to me like the current state of the NBA is perfect for it. The Blazers with or without Lillard are not going to compete for a title in the next 2-3 years. Maybe even 4. Seriously! Who honestly thinks this team is built to compete at that level? The time is perfect for them to blow this team up and even tank if need be. Let lillard and even CJ go. Sign Nurk to the QO and let him be a unrestricted next year. Keep Zach Collins and give him some huge minutes. If Lillard wants to stay and be part of this rebuild i would be all for it. But honestly who would blame him for wanting to play elsewhere? Golden State, Houston, Philly and Boston are primed right now to excel and of course the Lakers now have Lebron. So who thinks that the dismantling the Blazers would be a bad thing? IMO this is the perfect time for a complete rebuild. That is coming from a steadfast play out the hand you are dealt fan. If they want to try to tweak this roster and add Kawhi Leonard to the mix then that might make a huge difference but other than a huge move like that what could be done to bring a championship here? The Blazers right now are simply in no mans land. Either move way up or way down is the only way i see them going. Go Blazers! Kjironman is a fan!!!
KJ The problem is a complete rebuild could take 5-10 years with zero guarantee. Then there would always be another reason to rebuild. Look at the teams that have taken that route and name one that has won a championship or even close. GS built very similar to what the Blazers are doing now after drafting Curry and Thompson it took them a couple years to add a few seasoned vets then also hit pay dirty in the second round with Green. Objectively until one of the on purpose laggards wins the whole enchilada, I don't buy that approach.
I feel like there aren't any Alphas on that team, even though it has the chance of being pretty good.
No way could I handle a complete rebuild, Philly style. High draft picks are not a sure thing. The Cavs say hello.
What big time free agents have gone there? Hayward went to Boston but that doesn't happen if the Celtics hadn't hired his college coach....so a bit of a fluke. Other than that, haven't seen much. Maybe JJ Redick is as good as it gets? Because Danny Ainge is a witch/bitch and runs circle around the Valet King.
