How great is Tiger Woods?

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by cpawfan, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. MagicFan12

    MagicFan12 Member

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    While golf doesn't necessarily take athleticism, it does take skill, and Tiger Woods is perhaps the most skilled "athlete" at his particular sport.
     
  2. man_u_barmy_army

    man_u_barmy_army DYC Legend +Young Prodigy

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    pretty great to say the least
     
  3. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    I always think the true measure of an athlete or a team is the ability to produce results when playing below your best, and golf is a sport that can absolutely crucify you if you're even slightly off your game. For all his clutch putting, long hitting, short game and freak iron shots, Tiger is also by far the best scrambler. A lot has been made of the two eagle putts in the third round, but for the majority of that tournament he played very poorly, missing fairways and greens. But his ability to hang in there and make good scores from poor positions is absolutely unbelievable. Mentally, the only athlete I've seen who compares is Michael Jordan.
     
  4. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    the thing is.... when under pressure, he makes the shots he needs to. Look at the shot at 15. In the bunker on the 9th hole, Rocco is on the green in 2, Tiger hits an amazing shot to within 15'.

    And he makes the putts in clutch situations.

    He is the greatest golfer I have ever seen; and probably is the most dominant golfer ever.
     
  5. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    I'd go one step further and say he's the best athlete I've ever seen, but that's just a matter of opinion.
     
  6. Ice

    Ice JBB Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir Desmond @ Jun 17 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd go one step further and say he's the best athlete I've ever seen, but that's just a matter of opinion.</div>
    I agree with you dear.

    You guys are comparing individual players to sports that are very different. Golf is obviously a different type of game than basketball or football and therefore irrevelant to compare in difficulty. The same way some of you guys say these golfers can't play basketball is the same as golf. I'd love to see Kobe or someone elite in their sport play against Tiger Woods. Simply put, there is no matchup.

    But like Vintage and Desmond said its more of a matter of opinion. And a lot of you guys don't respect the game of golf like you do basketball. Jesus called them all 'Fatties' so that clearly shows his point of view. [​IMG]
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    ABC used to have a show about athletes from different sports competing in various events to determine who was the best athlete. Believe it or not, golfers and race car drivers were at or near the top every time.

    It is a mistake to assume that golfers aren't physically gifted athletes. Golf may seem like an easy sport, but it isn't. The guys walk a couple of miles, minimum. It's one thing to come off the first tee strong, but a very different one to be mentally and physically sharp at the 18th hole, four hours later. Physical conditioning is extremely important.

    A 2 foot putt on the municipal golf course is one thing, but a 2 foot putt for $500K and a championship is intense pressure.

    There are 50,000+ scratch golfers in the USA. Few are good enough to make the tour, let alone dominate it. Just making the tour makes you an elite golfer. Tiger is the elite of the elite.

    I'd add Mike Tyson as a guy who dominated until his brain imploded. I have seen a lot of the great boxers over the years, including Ali and Foreman and Frazier and so on. Foreman was an incredible puncher who could end a fight out-of-the-blue. On numerous occasions, Tyson would land his first punch of the fight and you could see it in his opponent's eyes that he didn't want to get hit again. I'm talking about a punch to the ribs or arms or whatever. He simply scared the shit out of people who got in the ring with him.
     
  8. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice @ Jun 17 2008, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir Desmond @ Jun 17 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd go one step further and say he's the best athlete I've ever seen, but that's just a matter of opinion.</div>
    I agree with you dear.

    You guys are comparing individual players to sports that are very different. Golf is obviously a different type of game than basketball or football and therefore irrevelant to compare in difficulty. The same way some of you guys say these golfers can't play basketball is the same as golf. I'd love to see Kobe or someone elite in their sport play against Tiger Woods. Simply put, there is no matchup.

    But like Vintage and Desmond said its more of a matter of opinion. And a lot of you guys don't respect the game of golf like you do basketball. Jesus called them all 'Fatties' so that clearly shows his point of view. [​IMG]
    </div>


    To add to this: Phil has dedicated himself to working out more so he can compete with Tiger. Physical fitness isn't necessarily required in golf, but like any sport, it does go a long way...


    OT: Is this Ice from JBB way back when?
     
  9. Ice

    Ice JBB Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Jun 17 2008, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To add to this: Phil has dedicated himself to working out more so he can compete with Tiger. Physical fitness isn't necessarily required in golf, but like any sport, it does go a long way...


    OT: Is this Ice from JBB way back when?</div>
    Yes sir. How have you been? I miss old school JBB.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>ABC used to have a show about athletes from different sports competing in various events to determine who was the best athlete. Believe it or not, golfers and race car drivers were at or near the top every time.</div>
    That doesn't surprise me at all. Discipline goes a long way, and those sports require a lot of it.

    I don't follow boxing one bit and personally hate it, but all my guy friends always have those fights on. Tyson always put fear in every guy he matched up against.
     
  10. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir Desmond @ Jun 17 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd go one step further and say he's the best athlete I've ever seen, but that's just a matter of opinion.</div>


    Yeah, I can't really argue against it...

    Its just incredible how he plays under pressure. Especially the putting. Rocco said that on the 18th playoff hole, his nerves got to him and he yanked the putter a little bit. Tiger needed birdie to win the hole and force the playoff....and he did.

    The putt on 18 on Sunday? That's stuff legends are made from. And everytime he needs a putt, he goes to the well, and delivers.
     
  11. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    I'd argue the third was even better than the putt. In the rough after two poor shots, not much green to work with unless he wanted to give himself a very tough putt from above the hole, and he sticks it within 15 feet. And you knew he'd do it too.

    But hey, splitting hairs.
     
  12. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice @ Jun 17 2008, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But like Vintage and Desmond said its more of a matter of opinion. And a lot of you guys don't respect the game of golf like you do basketball. Jesus called them all 'Fatties' so that clearly shows his point of view. [​IMG]</div>

    They're clearly a step behind the fitness of other sports.
     
  13. Ice

    Ice JBB Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 17 2008, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They're clearly a step behind the fitness of other sports.</div>
    Does that mean they are fat? No.

    Most NFL players playing on the line are overweight. Doesn't mean they aren't talented. Look at Warren Sapp. He was a helluva player, but sure packed on the pounds. That argument should be completely irrevelant. Golf is a completely different sport.

    You don't seem to appreciate or understand the game of golf, which is cool. You said that in another golf thread too. We all have our sports and we know yours is basketball and the precious Lakers.
     
  14. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice @ Jun 17 2008, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 17 2008, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They're clearly a step behind the fitness of other sports.</div>
    Does that mean they are fat? No.

    Most NFL players playing on the line are overweight. Doesn't mean they aren't talented. Look at Warren Sapp. He was a helluva player, but sure packed on the pounds. That argument should be completely irrevelant. Golf is a completely different sport.

    You don't seem to appreciate or understand the game of golf, which is cool. You said that in another golf thread too. We all have our sports and we know yours is basketball and the precious Lakers.
    </div>

    You're taking me too literal with the "fatties" thing.

    The NFL also has players like Barry Sanders and Randy Moss, who no one in the Golf world could ever dream to match physically. Even their fat players have to be extremely mobile/strong/etc., not just talented "static" players.

    And I have a lot of respect for Tiger btw.
     
  15. XSV

    XSV JBB The Virve Dynasty

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    Clearly you dont play or follow golf very much HK. And since when does being athletic make someone great? I guess Guillermo Diaz is better than John Stockton was by that logic. The mental aspect of any game fare out-trumps the physical aspect. So golf is a game where you don't have to be athletic or in great shape to be very good. That makes Tiger's dominance even more incredible.
     
  16. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XSV @ Jun 17 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Clearly you dont play or follow golf very much HK. And since when does being athletic make someone great? I guess Guillermo Diaz is better than John Stockton was by that logic. The mental aspect of any game fare out-trumps the physical aspect. So golf is a game where you don't have to be athletic or in great shape to be very good. That makes Tiger's dominance even more incredible.</div>

    By not being in the best physical shape, his competition clearly limits their potential.

    Further it isn't all about being athletic (I never stated this), yet it can't be ignored that they have all day to wind up and hit the ball, unlike <u>insert God-like QB</u>. There's no pass rush, you can't make a noise or Tiger bitches, etc.

    Golf is also becoming very unpopular with the latest generations (for good reason imo), and his competition is weaker now. Of course I still think he's the best ever in that sport, I'm just not nearly in love with Golf as other people.
     
  17. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 17 2008, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XSV @ Jun 17 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Clearly you dont play or follow golf very much HK. And since when does being athletic make someone great? I guess Guillermo Diaz is better than John Stockton was by that logic. The mental aspect of any game fare out-trumps the physical aspect. So golf is a game where you don't have to be athletic or in great shape to be very good. That makes Tiger's dominance even more incredible.</div>

    By not being in the best physical shape, his competition clearly limits their potential.

    Further it isn't all about being athletic (I never stated this), yet it can't be ignored that they have all day to wind up and hit the ball, unlike <u>insert God-like QB</u>. There's no pass rush, you can't make a noise or Tiger bitches, etc.

    Golf is also becoming very unpopular with the latest generations (for good reason imo), and his competition is weaker now. Of course I still think he's the best ever in that sport, I'm just not nearly in love with Golf as other people.
    </div>You are right. They have all day to wind up and hit.

    In football, if your throw is off a few millimeters, it doesn't matter. The WR should still catch it.

    In golf, if you mis-hit the ball by a few millimeters, its the difference between hitting the fairway and hitting the fairway....on a different hole.

    And because golf is an individual sport, the pressure they face is different than in football.

    They face pressure. Believe me.
     
  18. Ice

    Ice JBB Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Further it isn't all about being athletic (I never stated this), yet it can't be ignored that they have all day to wind up and hit the ball, unlike insert God-like QB. There's no pass rush, you can't make a noise or Tiger bitches, etc</div>
    I'll second Vintage's sarcasm.

    And OT but I'm curious, why do you compare everything to God? It could offend the athiests.

    Golf is nothing like football where the fans are loud and obnixious. It's a classy game and the fans there respect the players - and yes, being quiet while the player takes all day to wind up and hit the ball is something that they just do.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Golf is also becoming very unpopular with the latest generations (for good reason imo), and his competition is weaker now.</div>
    Not really.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The NFL also has players like Barry Sanders and Randy Moss, who no one in the Golf world could ever dream to match physically.</div>
    Right, no doubt there - but what does Sanders athletic build have to do with anything? You don't have to have a 6 pack with massive muscles to dominate the game of golf. Thats what we're all trying to explain to you - it takes deeper talents than how hard you hit the weights at the gym.

    And something else for thought - Making a game winning put in DEAD silence on the 18th hole to determine whether you win or not is a lot of pressure! You're nerves are going crazy and the only thing you can do is remain calm to sink a putt. In all honestly I'd rather have the noise and screaming fans.
     
  19. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice @ Jun 17 2008, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Further it isn't all about being athletic (I never stated this), yet it can't be ignored that they have all day to wind up and hit the ball, unlike insert God-like QB. There's no pass rush, you can't make a noise or Tiger bitches, etc</div>
    I'll second Vintage's sarcasm.

    And OT but I'm curious, why do you compare everything to God? It could offend the athiests.

    Golf is nothing like football where the fans are loud and obnixious. It's a classy game and the fans there respect the players - and yes, being quiet while the player takes all day to wind up and hit the ball is something that they just do.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Golf is also becoming very unpopular with the latest generations (for good reason imo), and his competition is weaker now.</div>
    Not really.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The NFL also has players like Barry Sanders and Randy Moss, who no one in the Golf world could ever dream to match physically.</div>
    Right, no doubt there - but what does Sanders athletic build have to do with anything? You don't have to have a 6 pack with massive muscles to dominate the game of golf. Thats what we're all trying to explain to you - it takes deeper talents than how hard you hit the weights at the gym.

    And something else for thought - Making a game winning put in DEAD silence on the 18th hole to determine whether you win or not is a lot of pressure! You're nerves are going crazy and the only thing you can do is remain calm to sink a putt. In all honestly I'd rather have the noise and screaming fans.
    </div>



    Uh, don't bring up my "God" thing again, it is a big joke to me. Yeah I'm Christian but I'm pretty liberal.





    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>More Americans Are Giving Up Golf

    Article Tools Sponsored By
    By PAUL VITELLO
    Published: February 21, 2008

    HAUPPAUGE, N.Y. €” The men gathered in a new golf clubhouse here a couple of weeks ago circled the problem from every angle, like caddies lining up a shot out of the rough.

    €œWe have to change our mentality,€ said Richard Rocchio, a public relations consultant.

    €œThe problem is time,€ offered Walter Hurney, a real estate developer. €œThere just isn€™t enough time. Men won€™t spend a whole day away from their family anymore.€

    William A. Gatz, owner of the Long Island National Golf Club in Riverhead, said the problem was fundamental economics: too much supply, not enough demand.

    The problem was not a game of golf. It was the game of golf itself.

    Over the past decade, the leisure activity most closely associated with corporate success in America has been in a kind of recession.

    The total number of people who play has declined or remained flat each year since 2000, dropping to about 26 million from 30 million, according to the National Golf Foundation and the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association.

    More troubling to golf boosters, the number of people who play 25 times a year or more fell to 4.6 million in 2005 from 6.9 million in 2000, a loss of about a third.

    The industry now counts its core players as those who golf eight or more times a year. That number, too, has fallen, but more slowly: to 15 million in 2006 from 17.7 million in 2000, according to the National Golf Foundation.

    The five men who met here at the Wind Watch Golf Club a couple of weeks ago, golf aficionados all, wondered out loud about the reasons. Was it the economy? Changing family dynamics? A glut of golf courses? A surfeit of etiquette rules €” like not letting people use their cellphones for the four hours it typically takes to play a round of 18 holes?

    Or was it just the four hours?

    Here on Long Island, where there are more than 100 private courses, golf course owners have tried various strategies: coupons and trial memberships, aggressive marketing for corporate and charity tournaments, and even some forays into the wedding business.

    Over coffee with a representative of the National Golf Course Owners Association, the owners of four golf courses discussed forming an owners€™ cooperative to market golf on Long Island and, perhaps, to purchase staples like golf carts and fertilizer more cheaply.

    They strategized about marketing to women, who make up about 25 percent of golfers nationally; recruiting young players with a high school tournament; attracting families with special rates; realigning courses to 6-hole rounds, instead of 9 or 18; and seeking tax breaks, on the premise that golf courses, even private ones, provide publicly beneficial open space.

    €œWhen the ship is sinking, it€™s time to get creative,€ said Mr. Hurney, a principal owner of the Great Rock Golf Club in Wading River, which last summer erected a 4,000-square-foot tent for social events, including weddings, christenings and communions.

    The disappearance of golfers over the past several years is part of a broader decline in outdoor activities €” including tennis, swimming, hiking, biking and downhill skiing €” according to a number of academic and recreation industry studies.

    A 2006 study by the United States Tennis Association, which has battled the trend somewhat successfully with a forceful campaign to recruit young players, found that punishing hurricane seasons factored into the decline of play in the South, while the soaring popularity of electronic games and newer sports like skateboarding was diminishing the number of new tennis players everywhere.

    Rodney B. Warnick, a professor of recreation studies and tourism at the University of Massachusetts, said that the aging population of the United States was probably a part of the problem, too, and that €œthere is a younger generation that is just not as active.€

    But golf, a sport of long-term investors €” both those who buy the expensive equipment and those who build the princely estates on which it is played €” has always seemed to exist in a world above the fray of shifting demographics. Not anymore.

    Jim Kass, the research director of the National Golf Foundation, an industry group, said the gradual but prolonged slump in golf has defied the adage, “Once a golfer, always a golfer.” About three million golfers quit playing each year, and slightly fewer than that have been picking it up. A two-year campaign by the foundation to bring new players into the game, he said, “hasn’t shown much in the way of results.”

    “The man in the street will tell you that golf is booming because he sees Tiger Woods on TV,” Mr. Kass said. “But we track the reality. The reality is, while we haven’t exactly tanked, the numbers have been disappointing for some time.”

    Surveys sponsored by the foundation have asked players what keeps them away. “The answer is usually economic,” Mr. Kass said. “No time. Two jobs. Real wages not going up. Pensions going away. Corporate cutbacks in country club memberships — all that doom and gloom stuff.”

    In many parts of the country, high expectations for a golf bonanza paralleling baby boomer retirements led to what is now considered a vast overbuilding of golf courses.

    Between 1990 and 2003, developers built more than 3,000 new golf courses in the United States, bringing the total to about 16,000. Several hundred have closed in the last few years, most of them in Arizona, Florida, Michigan and South Carolina, according to the foundation.

    (Scores more courses are listed for sale on the Web site of the National Golf Course Owners Association, which lists, for example, a North Carolina property described as “two 18-hole championship courses, great mountain locations, profitable, $1.5 million revenues, Bermuda fairways, bent grass, nice clubhouses, one at $5.5 million, other at $2.5 million — possible some owner financing.”)

    At the meeting here, there was a consensus that changing family dynamics have had a profound effect on the sport.

    “Years ago, men thought nothing of spending the whole day playing golf — maybe Saturday and Sunday both,” said Mr. Rocchio, the public relations consultant, who is also the New York regional director of the National Golf Course Owners Association. “Today, he is driving his kids to their soccer games. Maybe he’s playing a round early in the morning. But he has to get back home in time for lunch.”

    Mr. Hurney, the real estate developer, chimed in, “Which is why if we don’t repackage our facilities to a more family orientation, we’re dead.”

    To help keep the Great Rock Golf Club afloat, owners erected their large climate-controlled tent near the 18th green last summer. It sat next to the restaurant, Blackwell’s, already operating there. By most accounts, it has been a boon to the club — though perhaps not a hole in one.

    Residents of the surrounding neighborhood have complained about party noise, and last year more than 40 signed a petition asking the town of Riverhead to intervene. Town officials are reviewing whether the tent meets local zoning regulations, but have not issued any noise summonses. Mr. Hurney told them he had purchased a decibel meter and would try to hire quieter entertainment.

    One neighbor, Dominique Mendez, whose home is about 600 feet from the 18th hole, said, “We bought our house here because we wanted to live in a quiet place, and we thought a golf course would be nice to see from the window. Instead, people have to turn up their air conditioners or wear earplugs at night because of the music thumping.”

    During weddings, she said: “you can hear the D.J., ‘We’re gonna do the garter!’ It’s a little much.”</div>

    http://www.outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=575 (click on the hyperlink to get to the article)

    Yes really, Ice. [​IMG]
     
  20. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I'd put my money on Tiger Woods whipping Peyton Manning's ass :]

    And Ice, God is a reference to Kobe Bryant or Peyton Manning. I'm not sure which one HK believes is God today. Too bad Peyton will never be God.
     

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