Sabonis dominating the US, aged 18

It wasn't technically an age limit - for US players. The rule was your college class had to have graduated for you to be eligible for the NBA draft. This rule was agreed upon by both the NBA and NCAA. At the time, both saw benefits in this arrangement. The NCAA got the best young players for four years (in most all cases), and the NBA used college ball as a minor league for developing young talent before turning pro and drawing a paycheck.

This rule is the reason Wilt Chamberlain played for the Harlem Globetrotters for a year between college and the NBA. As you say, the rule was later amended to permit "hardship" cases. Each case was reviewed on an individual basis. I seem to recall Dr. J's photo on the cover of Sports Illustrated when he applied for hardship entry into the NBA draft after his junior season of college. I don't recall if he was granted hardship status, or not. I tend to think not as he wasn't drafted by an NBA team (the Milwaukee Bucks) until after his college class had graduated. By then, he'd already been playing professionally for with the Virginia Squires of the ABA.

For international players, the age limit was hard and fast and set at 21-years old on the day of the draft. The NBA didn't care whether, or not, international players played college ball. Back in those days, the number of international players talented enough to play in the NBA was very small. And, those players all played on their national teams, where they learned the game and developed. Like a US player with four years of college, a 21-year old international player with several years of international play on his national team was much lower risk than an unproven 18-year old. Both of these rules were enacted to reduce the risk to the owners that they would spend big bucks on an unproven kid that wouldn't pan out. Basically, to protect the owners from themselves.

BNM

 

Jesus, overreact much? C_note bumped an old thread and responded to my question that was never answered. How horrific of me to reiterate the question.

Finally, something tangible to work with. So, there were different rules for domestic and international players, as well as a non-age based limit for domestics. Thanks.

I'm confused, though... How were Bird and Magic drafted early? And Jordan left after his Junior year, didn't he? I'm sure there were lots more, but those examples come to mind immediately from the pre-Sabonis era being discussed. [edit: Unstated point being, it doesn't seem like the hardship rule was hard to come by.]

 

The "hardship" standard was gradually reduced and eventually elminated. At first, it was VERY difficult to be granted a hardship exception. I'd need to do some more research to be sure (this is just from memory), but in Julius Erving's case back in 1971 his mother had been sick and her medical expenses were the basis for his hardship case. I don't rememember if his hardhip case was approved or denied by the NBA, but he wasn't actually drafted by the Bucks until after his senior class graduated in 1972 (after already playing one season in the ABA).

Side note: imagine the potential dynasty in Milwaukee with the young Lew Alcindor, Dr. J., late career Oscar Robertson, Bobby Dandridge, etc. I wonder if Lew/Kareem would have stuck around longer if he'd had Dr. J. for a teammate.

In Bird's case, he was drafted as a "junior elegible". Bird briefly attended IU on a basketball scholarship, but dropped out well before basketball season even started. He sat out a year working on a garbage truck for the French Lick street department before enrolling at Indiana State. So, the rest of Bird's class graduated after his junior year of eligibility at Indiana State. Even though he hadn't personally graduated his class had - which meant he met the NBA standard to be draft eligible. The ever cunning Red Aurebach realized this and took him with the 6th pick in the 1978 draft as a "junior eligible" - someone whose class had graduated that still lhad a year of NCAA eligibilty remaining. Bird could have joined the Celtics in 1978, but elected to remain at Indiana State for his senior year and then sign with the Celtics, who still held his rights, prior to the 1979 draft.

Magic Johnson was a hardship case. Jordan didn't get drafted until 1984, by then, the hardship provision was much more loosely enforced and would soon be elminatated altogether. However, the age limit on international players was still in place and actively enforced. There just weren't a lot of young international players highly sought after by NBA teams back then.

BNM

 

Interesting. I knew Bird had dropped out of Indiana, but I'd never heard that his Junior status was eligibility not grade.

 

I was a senior in HS in Indiana when Bird was a senior at Indiana State. I almost went to Indiana State because of him. I'm glad I didn't. He put Indiana State on the map - and it fell right back off the map after he left.

BNM

 

I looked at Sabas' 1985 draft, plus or minus 5 years. That is, 11 drafts, 1980-90. There were many more underage players in drafts before and after those years.

draft day...age 20 on draft day

6/10/80 Mike Gminski, Wes Matthews
6/09/81 Isiah Thomas
6/29/82 Clark Kellogg, Eddie Phillips, Derek Smith
6/28/83 Ennis Whatley
6/19/84
6/18/85 Benoit Benjamin, Kenny Green, Pete Williams
6/17/86 Brad Daugherty, Cedric Henderson, John Williams (19)
6/22/87 Derrick McKey
6/28/88 Rex Chapman, Derrick Chievous, Sylvester Gray
6/27/89 Jay Edwards, Shawn Kemp (age 19)
6/27/90 Cedric Ceballos, Jerrod Mustaf

I clicked on each player in this list to check birthdate.
http://bkref.com/tiny/AOW1m

source for draft dates
http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Dates.php

The real list would be longer because it would include all underage DRAFTED. Basketball-Reference gives only those who were underage when they PLAYED. Many under 21 were drafted but didn't make the team. Many underage were drafted late (only Pete Williams, 4th round, made his team). This list is only the ones who were drafted underage AND who also made the team. So the real list is longer than this.

 

See post before this one.

Correct. As for rules differing for foreigners, I anticipated that and answered:

 

I missed that previous reply of your's. I agree, including that info would make the commonly seen explanation hold a lot more water. The problem is, most people just regurgitate what they've seen elsewhere -- example being every journalist under the sun repeating that Shawn Kemp went pro straight out of HS. Sometimes, it takes annoying a few people like with this thread to get a satisfying answer from someone that knows what they're talking about.

 

We've already been over this; handiman doesn't trust the internet.

 

I just disproved the many internet citations in this thread claiming that there was a general NBA rule against drafting players under age 21, and you still hold to your position that the internet should trump reality? Have you read the thread? (If you re-read it, skip the distractions of Denny talking about Spencer Haywood 15 years before 1985, and Boob talking about the 1950s. I can see how you forgot the point, that some general age rule was not in effect.)

 

Wow. Your quoting that is dumb on 3 levels.

1) Here we go again. Finding a source which contradicts our memories, so we know it's not true. I eagerly looked at that paragraph in the Wikipedia article, to find its cited reference and go to that, because I know it's not the whole story. Sure enough, that paragraph has no reference citation. It is simply the opinion of some anonymous Wikipedia author, who probably was about 10 in 1989.

2) This is the same Wikipedia article which has no credibility because of the statement I just showed to be false or at best incomplete. "Sabonis was selected by the Atlanta Hawks with the 77th pick of the 1985 NBA Draft. However, the selection was voided because Sabonis was under 21 at the time of the draft." I just finished disproving that and blindly, you continue to use your crappy article.

3) Your claim that Soviet immigration policy did not allow him to work here till 1989 would have prevented his being drafted in 1986 just as much as it supposedly did in 1985. If he wasn't allowed to work here till 1989, why was it okay to draft him in 1986, but not 1985? Try thinking, Denny. Obviously, that wasn't the reason for disallowing him in 1985.

A month before we drafted him, he ruptured his right Achilles tendon. Later he fell down a flight of stairs. He came to Portland in 1988 to find whether Blazer rehabilitation methods had anything to offer, and it appeared he might join the team. Doubting his health and lured by rich European offers, he surprised the Blazers and returned to the Soviet Union. He then won the 1988 Olympic gold medal, beating the U.S. He signed with a Spanish team and later ruptured the same Achilles and broke his right foot bone.

The truth is that both countries were touchy about his working in the U.S. American immigration put up obstacles to his working in this country, the same as they always had with immigrants from Communist countries who might spread information contradicting the controlled U.S. media over whether they were miserable slaves lined up to be executed. The issue is now smothered in propaganda. If the famous Sabonis had really wanted to play here earlier, his government couldn't have stopped him, but our government could have. After the great Bob Whitsitt was hired in 1994, he immediately got him over here. You guys used uncited internet articles, so I'll find one. This says it was Sabonis, not the Soviet government, who resisted his playing in the NBA.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/419711/BRIEFS--BASKETBALL.html

 

Nah, I merely distrust anything/anyone that doesn't seem trustworthy. That applies to most things that are explained in poor fashion.