Politics Third trimester abortions?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by magnifier661, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  2. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    JAMA article as to why a woman would need a late term abortion:

    Late abortions are fundamentally important to women’s reproductive health. Antenatal fetal diagnosis, such as maternal {alpha}-fetoprotein screening and amniocentesis, is predicated on the availability of induced abortion. Although techniques such as chorionic villus sampling and early amniocentesis have allowed earlier diagnosis, by the time results of midtrimester amniocentesis or ultrasound are available, a woman may be beyond 20 weeks’ gestation.

    Illnesses of women and fetal anomalies lead to requests for late abortions. Late abortion can be lifesaving for women with medical disorders aggravated by pregnancy. Conditions such as Eisenmenger syndrome carry a high risk of maternal morbidity and mortality in pregnancy, the latter ranging from 20% to 30%. Craniopagus conjoined twins and a 25-year-old woman with a 9 x 15-cm thoracic aortic aneurysm from newly diagnosed Marfan syndrome. Cancer sometimes makes late abortion necessary. For example, either radical hysterectomy or radiation therapy for cervical cancer before fetal viability involves abortion.
     
  3. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Yes absolutely, but I say this once again that these "abnormalities" can all be detected in early second trimester. Look it up. It's not like families aren't aware of these defects early on.

    I know this because our child was a potential "high risk" situation. The doctor said we will know if these abnormalities will happen after the 18th week. Third trimester is starts at 28 weeks. That's 10 weeks before any parent can be informed of these abnormalities. We are in 2015, technology is way more advanced these days
     
  4. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Again, all that can be discovered in the second trimester. None of you have shown any substantial evidence that a baby cannot be c sectioned out. If the baby dies, then so be it. At least they have a chance
     
  5. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Look, I'm not against abortion. I'm against third trimester abortions.
     
  6. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    You do not have enough medical knowledge to make that statement.

    And more importantly, the law you are upset over will not suddenly make it legal for anyone to have a 3rd trimester abortion for the hell of it. All it is doing is continuing to allow women to make that decision if their life is endangered.
     
  7. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6149464.stm

    50% survival after 24 weeks.

    Like I said... Early 2nd trimester, a modern OB can tell you if your baby has any abnormalities that are life threatening to you or your baby.

    The earliest a baby has survived outside the womb is 21 weeks, so if one can survive, then all have a chance. The chances increase drastically at the start of the third trimester.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015
  8. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Not true.

    Also you're not taking into account medical conditions the mother may develop.
     
  9. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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  10. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Not true.

    Mother in car accident. Baby injured. Abnormality.

    Mother and baby shot. Abnormality.

    Mother has stoke, suffers organ failure. Abnormality.

    Lots of things can happen to the mother and/or the baby after the 1st or 2nd trimester. Cesarian is not always a viable option.

    Stop with the absolutes, the only ones are death and taxes.
     
  11. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Wow! I had no idea they cared when the child becomes a citizen. I thought the whole idea was to extend a womans control over the beginnings of life regardless of what anyone else thinks.
    I expect them to continue pushing to push the date back as each date is established.
    But then, I agree with Sly. I have no intention of forcing a woman to raise another Democrat they do not want. However, I do hope some good soul is explaining the benefits of C section delivery to those not up to natural birth. ( Not to be confused with Natural Born).
     
  12. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Mother in car accident. Baby injured. Abnormality. - c section

    Mother and baby shot. Abnormality. - c section

    Mother has stoke, suffers organ failure. Abnormality. - they would try their best to c section baby

    It may not be always viable, but it's always an option.
     
  13. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Trudeau is too Edgy for S2

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    The way I see it is this:

    I think abortion is murder and its my right to say it is.

    BUT, some people think otherwise and what they do is their choice. I'm not going to tell them what to do, I will just judge them as such.

    If they want to do it up to the day the kid is born, go right ahead. I think you're a scumbag for doing so and you killed your kid, but then again, I'll think the same way if you aborted after conception.
     
    magnifier661 likes this.
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    This.
     
  15. Cryptkeeper

    Cryptkeeper Forum Bourgeoisie Staff Member Global Moderator

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  16. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    This is what I've said the government feels about babies. They won't have rights until they come out of the woman's womb. Then the government can try the mother for murder if she decides to kill the baby the day after birth.
     
  17. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    I feel the same way. But the third trimester is where I draw the line. The Baby is actually fully conscious, they dream, cry, feel comfort and even smile in this stage. At this point, I believe it isn't a fetus any longer. It's a baby!
     
  18. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    THIS?!

    http://realchoice.blogspot.com/2008/10/third-trimester-abortions-and-law.html

    and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doe_v._Bolton

    For one that is a stickler for law, I would think you would be on top of the actual law itself.

    It doesn't matter if it's 1 abortion out of a million, even if this is truly the case. The fact that it's perfectly legal for a woman to abort a fully developed baby because of emotional stress, but that very same woman would be charged for murder if she killed that baby just a day after birth is beyond reason!

    It seems you and sly aren't looking at the entire picture here.
     
  19. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    But of course, the argument is that I am not qualified to use "survival rates" as Sly and Denny suggest. So I will just give a link of the Scientific studies on survival rates "vitality" of the fetus in the womb.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

    There is no sharp limit of development, age, or weight at which a human fetus automatically becomes viable.[1] According to studies between 2003 and 2005, 20 to 35 percent of babies born at 23 weeks of gestation survive, while 50 to 70 percent of babies born at 24 to 25 weeks, and more than 90 percent born at 26 to 27 weeks, survive.[4] It is rare for a baby weighing less than 500g (17.6 ounces) to survive.[1] A baby's chances for survival increases 3-4% per day between 23 and 24 weeks of gestation and about 2-3% per day between 24 and 26 weeks of gestation. After 26 weeks the rate of survival increases at a much slower rate because survival is high already.[5]

    [​IMG]
    Stages in prenatal development, showing viability and point of 50% chance of survival (limit of viability) at bottom. Weeks and months numbered by gestation.
    Completed weeks of Gestation at birth 21 and less 22 23 24 25 26 27 30 34
    Chance of survival[5] 0% 0-10% 10-35% 40-70% 50-80% 80-90% >90% >95% >98%
     
  20. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Mags, not all women can have c-sections. There are medical reasons for this. Low blood pressure being number one. And I didn't say you're not qualified to use survival rates. I said you don't have the medical knowledge to make the claims that you are. C-section is not the medical answer to all pregnancies or abortions. You're trying to make the argument that all babies can be saved. They can't. Medical technology is advancing but it's not there yet.
     

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