What should be done with Anfernee?

This is very true.....and that goes both ways.

 

This feels like the opposite of the grass is always greener, and instead an our grass is always browner sort of thread. Is Ant the absolute best he could be currently. playing alongside Dame? Maybe not. Are we more focused on maximizing Ant than maximizing our own team? Moving him for lesser players just because he could be better without Dame is a stupid suggestion, to me. Hart's inability to hit the 3 consistently, and his lack of desire to take them when open, makes me not love his fit alongside Dame at the 2. He's our current PF. I don't think he's an ideal fit to slide to the 2, personally.
The trade Ant notions always kind of end up the same as the CJ ones. It's easy to say swap him for a good SF to slide in to our starting lineup. It's far more difficult to find a SF that would be available. The only one I could think of is Anunoby, and it's a deal I think helps both teams. Which is why it likely won't happen!

 

I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, Anfernee's value as an asset is not maximized playing next to Dame. Compare his stats playing next to Dame with his stats starting without Dame. And honestly, Ant's value to us isn't that much... unless Dame goes out. But then his value doesn't improve enough to make up for the absence of Dame. He's a shiny bauble - he does the exciting things but he doesn't do the dirty work. In that respect, a player like Wendell Carter Jr. is almost the polar opposite. The only downside to Carter is that he's a center and then what do we do with Nurk?

Re: Anunoby. I get the impression Ujiri only makes a trade if it's obviously in their favor. And by all accounts Anunoby is being priced ridiculously high. But hey: nobody on this board will countenance trading Sharpe, so why isn't he our SF of the future?

 

Simons is not the iron clad leader that Lillard is. Damian had a tough guy attitude since day 1 in this league. Anfernee plays slick offense, but hasn't shown the traits of a team captain.

 

Um... then you trade Nurk too, or you platoon those two for the rest of the season and then trade Nurk in the off season when it becomes so apparent that Carter is the better fit. Also Sharpe isn't the SF of the future, he's the SG of the future.

 

I wonder how high people would rate Simons as guard compared to the rest of the league?. Where would he rank?

just in the West I'd rate these guards ahead of him: Jamal Murray, Ja Morant, Desmond Bane, CJ?, Fox, Doncic, Curry, Klay, PG13, Clarkson? Edwards, SGA, Dame, Kelden Johnson?

so anywhere from 11-14 guards in the west; and probably even more in the east.

Ant still has some upside. But a lot of the players better than or about the same level have upside too. Am I underrating him significantly. Should I delete PG's from the list(s)? And how much value can a guard probably outside of the top-20 have

 

He's younger than all of those guys (only two months younger than Ja but still younger). I don't think you should delete point guards from the list because Ant is a lead guard when he's at his best or I could see him being really great as a 2 next to a big point like Luka or LaMelo. You should be comparing him with small guards. So Bane, Klay, PG13 and Kelden shouldn't be on that list since all of them are wings and not guards. I think there are teams in the league that would like Ant a lot and give significant value for him (not all star value but quality starter value). I don't know which teams those are or who the players that would be coming back but Ant is a 23 year old slam dunk champ who is a very solid three point shooter, ball handler and has a bunch of other ways to get a bucket in his bag. That's valuable. It's a role player but it's valuable role player. For a team that has some two way wings with length, he might be worth giving one of those up.

 

sorry man, but your notion of simply deleting the bigger guys because their length makes them 'wings' seems designed to inflate Ant's value. In fact, because Ant can't really play 'wing' due to size sure doesn't enhance his value. Josh Hart is averaging more assists than Ant, so Ant's lead guard credentials seem a little iffy. And he sure hasn't done a good job of leading the 2nd unit. Maybe he can be a sort-of PG, eventually. But if we're talking about trade value before this trade deadline, I think you are overrating Ant's trade value. Reminds me of last season with CJ and Powell

as far as being younger....He's 1 year younger than Bane; less than 2 years younger than Murray and Fox; less than a year younger than SGA; older than Keldon Johnson; 2 years older than Edwards. I just don't think you can project Ant as having a significantly bigger reservoir of upside than guys less than 2 years older than him. 24 and 25 is still relatively young

 

What do you think Ant's birthday is? ESPN has it as June 8, 1999 four months younger than Keldon. As for Edwards, that is the only guy on the list that is younger than Ant.

Also, I'm sorry that I don't only know about the Blazers but other teams definitely need lead guards especially 23 year old lead guards that are extremely athletic, can put the ball on the floor and have every shot they need. This is like trading CJ at 26 but he's only 23. We can get a quality starting wing from teams like Toronto who are swimming in them but they'd have to have a trade set up for FVV, I don't think there's a better back court mate for Haliburton with his size and pass first mentality, I don't think the Lakers have the right pieces but he would be a big deal for them so to them in a three team might work, for a team that shit the bed like Minny anything is possible and they have SloMo, Prince and their McDaniels, the Knicks start Grimes and his backup is Quickley and Ant is better than both of them, I don't have any idea what the Wizards are doing but if they blow it up Ant might be a good guy to grab in a three team and I think that is the key to all of this.

Ant is a special talent and he's young. I don't know all of the permutations but just the fact that Ant is extremely athletic, 23, shoots the ball well from everywhere, can really handle the ball and has shown he can do that as the number one option of the number three option makes him special. A lot of moves that I can't forecast can happen, other GMs could be really into Ant for a while and there are things that as a fan I have no access to and can't imagine. Ant has value, I'm not asking anyone to ignore that he's a small guard but small guards have been traded for wings with length throughout the history of the league and right now small guards with a three and athleticism have never dominated the game more.

 

Forgot Devin Booker and probably Jordan Poole as well.

He has to really elevate his offensive game to be considered a solid lead guard for a playoff team as he is so bad defensively. And he needs to work better next to Dame because his numbers when Dame is available are not good. 19.4 pts/2.8 rebs/3.4 asts is not that good if you want to be considered the 2nd best player. What's strange is that even his %s are down next to Dame while you would expect the opposite.

 

Can only hope that this is up to the usual standards of Chris Haynes' "insider knowledge".

 

Or hopefully just Blazers posturing to try to get more value back.

 

ok...we have a pretty big difference of opinion on what Ant has established and what upside he has shown

I hope you are right about Ant, but what I'm seeing in your posts is you are maximizing Ant's strengths and minimizing, by a lot, his flaws. It looks more like sales pitch than evaluation. And in terms of trade value I don't think other front offices will spend much time swallowing a sales pitch

this is Ant's 5th season; he's played in 270 NBA games and his roles have been consistent. Other teams aren't going to gauge by hot streaks. They will gauge by his overall game. Yes, he's a good shooter, generically. But his career marks are 43% on FG's and 38.6% on three's. Those are good marks, at least on three's, but they aren't elite by any stretch. This season, the only area he has shown improvement is in 2ptFG%, specifically at the rim and in the 10-16' zone; but since only 9% of his shots come from that zone, it's not very germane.

Ant is in the 67th percentile in spot-up (Dame 89th); the 75th percentile in isolation (Dame 91st); Ant doesn't even register in PnR ball-handler because he doesn't have enough attempts (Dame 93rd percentile). Notice the theme: Dame is an elite offensive player, Ant isn't. Ant was elite last season in catch-&-shoot, but he's not very elite this season

Ant is a bit undersized SG who can't really be a wing because of that size. He's a poor defender and he doesn't get to the foul line. He's also upside down in his usage/assist rates. Dame, Hart, and Winslow all have higher assist rates than usage rates. Ant's the opposite by a significant gap. Look at this:



of that top-5, there is only one who has an assist/turnover ratio under 2.0

none of these things are saying "lead guard" to me. It's saying Klay Thompson without the elite shooting, length, and defensive skill. Maybe think Lou Williams

something else that needs to be said, IMO. For years I heard people talk about CJ's numbers without Dame; how much higher they were. Now, the same is happening with Ant. People saying this like it's a virtue. I don't think it's a virtue. Those are 'good-player-on-bad-team-looks-like-great-player' stats. people can look at CJ and see he's not an elite player. Same with Ant. Teams aren't going to be trading for players like CJ, or Ant, to be their go-to number 1 option. They will be looking for a supporting player. Somebody to put next to their top-2 options. Those 'look-at-what-he-did-without-Dame' numbers don't impress anybody but homers, IMO.

simply put, Ant is not a good #2 at this point. He doesn't plug into a Durant/Curry, Tatum/Brown, Giannis/Jrue, Lebron/AD equation. He's a #3 at best. If he was a #2 Portland would be a much better team. And that's the highest value he'd have on the trade market in my view...as a #3 option with the downsides of being small for a wing and poor defense. Maybe you're right and that somebody would pay a premium because of upside. I'm just skeptical of that

all that said, I'm certainly not advocating that Portland has to trade Ant. This hasn't come close to the toxic level of the CJ situation yet. If there is not a good trade available then the Blazers just need to ride Dame/Ant to the off-season

 

I don't think you can read too much into this. If you listen to the broadcast, Haynes says that he doesn't have any recent information about the Blazers' thoughts. He's just saying that from the beginning of the season the word was that Ant is a piece that the Blazers see as a part of their core going forward. Is that what they're thinking today, after seeing a half season of how Dame and Ant actually function together as a starting backcourt? Who knows. Will there be a player available at the deadline who is worth changing their assessment of Ant's future? Who knows.

 

I though I was clear but maybe I wasn't. I don't think the return for Ant should be a second option. I want a 3 and D SF with size or 3 and D PF with enough mobility to switch. So the only things I want in return for Ant if the trade was just Ant outgoing for one other guy is to be able to shoot from distance, defend and be bigger than anyone else we have that can do that besides Jerami but not someone who can put the ball on the floor like Jerami or get his own shot like Jerami or get to the rack like Jerami. So none of the stuff that makes Grant more likely to be a second or third option on offense... just a spot up shooter on offense and then Jerami level D or a little less than his level but not too much.

I honestly don't think asking for that in return for Ant is over reaching. If we wanted another player on Jerami's level for Ant we would have to guarantee our pick to Chicago so we could add multiple future firsts. I'm also not apposed to a team that values Nurk getting us that 3 and D forward and us sending Ant to a team for a role playing C or two with mobility. I would add Hart to any of these deals because ideally I would want to start Shae at SG after the deadline. I know that means hoping that one of Nas or Justise is healthy or dreaming that both are but I want big swings.

Sorry this is so long but the moral of the story is that I don't view Ant as an all star or number two offensive guy on a championship team and don't expect to get a guy like that back for him. Also I'm not opposed to packaging him with others players and picks if a star is what we want back in return.

 

Does that mean that you want to leave the Dame/CJ (cough cough gag) I mean Dame/Ant back court together?

 

OK...that adds some clarity

my preference, using a couple of Toronto examples: if it was a choice of Ant for OG vs Ant + Hart/Payton for Siakam, I'd much rather land Siakam. I'd prefer it if it was Payton going out rather than Hart, but I suppose, after adding Siakam and needing to re-sign Grant, Hart would make more sense as outgoing because he's expiring

I just think that Dame-Grant-Siakam-Nurkic, with Payton/Sharpe/Winslow as the 3rd wing gets Portland closer to contention then Ant for OG. Of course, it may be a pretty inconsistent 3-pt shooting team and that's an obstacle

I just happen to doubt that Ant has OG value or that available Blazers assets have Siakam value

 

I think for Ant to have any value with Toronto they'll have had to moved or know they can move FVV in a different trade they like. I think that if they did have a way they liked of moving on from FVV that they might consider Ant and Nurk for Siakam but they'd probably still want picks with that. We would then have to find a way to acquire a starting level big, like Bamba or something.

It is hard to find places where Ant brings a ton of value that would make Joe willing to move him and his perceived upside. I do think Toronto without FVV is a good place to look, I think he would be a great fit next to LaMelo or Luka but don't know what I'd want from them in return for him or what they would be willing to give up. I guess we'll see if we all lack the information and creativity to see a logical path to improve by moving Ant or if it's hard for us to see because there isn't one. Actually we won't know shit because we never do if nothing happens because at that point we won't know if Joe got an offer that we would love and he overvalues Ant. Motherfucker, this is CJ all over again! The only way we'll know anything is if Ant gets moved... and it is hard to know of a way that happens.

 

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