Charlotte Bobcats vs. Chicago Bulls

[DynastYWarrioR6]

Pretty simple, vote for the winner of this matchup. Winner advances to play the winner of the 2/7 series.

Charlotte Bobcats - ghoti
C: Greg Oden / Tony Battie
PF: Anderson Varejao / Joe Smith / Ian Mahinmi
SF: Peja Stojakovic / Al Thornton
SG: Mike Dunleavy Jr. / Dorell Wright
PG: Derrick Rose / Rafer Alston / Chris Quinn

Chicago Bulls - Denny Crane
C: Samuel Dalembert / Nazr Mohammed / Melvin Ely
PF: David Lee / Glen Davis
SF: Andre Iguodala / Quinton Ross
SG: Ronnie Brewer / Kirk Snyder
PG: Gilbert Arenas / Earl Watson / Marcus Williams

 

[J_Ray]

Chicago is so team oriented and have such a great hustling defensive unit, how are they not winning this? Their only weak spot IMO is @ back-up SG, but Brewer, Arenas, & Iggy can play all those minutes with Ross or Earl Watson playing SF or PG.

 

[jerseycarter15]

Because of fans votes

 

[pegs]

Chicago is so team oriented and have such a great hustling defensive unit, how are they not winning this? Their only weak spot IMO is @ back-up SG, but Brewer, Arenas, & Iggy can play all those minutes with Ross or Earl Watson playing SF or PG.

I find 5 problems with your "team oriented....great hustling defensive unit" comment: Arenas, Watson, Williams, Mohammed, Ely.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

Watson's a solid defender. He's underrated.

 

[J_Ray]

I find 5 problems with your "team oriented....great hustling defensive unit" comment: Arenas, Watson, Williams, Mohammed, Ely.

Funny story how Watson and Mohammed are both good players, with Mohammed contributing to the Spurs before, another team oriented team. Marcus Williams and Melvin Ely will barely play in a playoff rotation. Arenas is also a great player, and is one of the most dominant scorers in the NBA. He fits in nice with Dalembert, Lee, Iggy, & Brewer, so there is no problem there.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

Funny story how Watson and Mohammed are both good players, with Mohammed contributing to the Spurs before, another team oriented team. Marcus Williams and Melvin Ely will barely play in a playoff rotation. Arenas is also a great player, and is one of the most dominant scorers in the NBA. He fits in nice with Dalembert, Lee, Iggy, & Brewer, so there is no problem there.

Nice straw man!

 

[pegs]

Funny story how Watson and Mohammed are both good players, with Mohammed contributing to the Spurs before, another team oriented team. Marcus Williams and Melvin Ely will barely play in a playoff rotation. Arenas is also a great player, and is one of the most dominant scorers in the NBA. He fits in nice with Dalembert, Lee, Iggy, & Brewer, so there is no problem there.

So? Just because someone played on the Spurs, doesn't make them team oriented.

Mohammed's not all that good, either

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

So? Just because someone played on the Spurs, doesn't make them team oriented.

Mohammed's not all that good, either

Mohammed is plenty good enough to be a backup C and perform well in his limited minutes

 

[Denny Crane]

I didn't set my lineup, so it's whatever whoever made it out to be. I see Mohammed as my #2 at PF, too, for a few minutes a game. Big Baby gets the same kind of minutes he got for Boston.

My SFs are Iggy for ~40 minutes and Brewer the other 8.

 

[J_Ray]

Nice straw man!

Nice input man, you ever consider being an analyst for ESPN? Because they always utter complete non-sense and just talk for the hell of it too....

So? Just because someone played on the Spurs, doesn't make them team oriented.

Mohammed's not all that good, either

He did a pretty good job playing in a team oriented enviroment before and he is a good back-up, but it's just another observation/opinion you don't care about.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

Nice input man, you ever consider being an analyst for ESPN? Because they always utter complete non-sense and just talk for the hell of it too....

How is that non-sense? It's a clear straw man. You almost always revert to straw man. Just because I say something you don't like/agree with doesn't make it nonsense.

 

[cpawfan]

He did a pretty good job playing in a team oriented enviroment before and he is a good back-up, but it's just another observation/opinion you don't care about.

Where was a he a good team oriented player before the Spurs?

Atlanta?
the pathetic Knicks?

Dumars couldn't wait to find someone to take Nazr off of his hands once he saw how useless he was in their system.

 

[J_Ray]

How is that non-sense? It's a clear straw man. You almost always revert to straw man. Just because I say something you don't like/agree with doesn't make it nonsense.

The guy said there was 5 problems with my comment, then named off 5 players. I actually responded to someone's post and addressed what he thought was the problems. Then you march into this thread acting like a douche, (which is nothing new for you) not even putting in any input, just attacking me.

Where was a he a good team oriented player before the Spurs?

Atlanta?
the pathetic Knicks?

Dumars couldn't wait to find someone to take Nazr off of his hands once he saw how useless he was in their system.

Those pathetic Knicks made the playoffs in 03-04 when they traded for him at midseason, where he averaged 9.1 points on 56% shooting with 7.7 rebounds with an occasional block in 24 minutes. Every time he's been given a chance, he has contributed effectively, so he's not a bad player to come off the bench. After he was moved to Charlotte, he did just fine and even when he got minutes in Detroit, he did good. You also pointed out another thing, in "their system", not every team runs Detroit's system. Just because one organization has an issue with a player doesn't me he's a problem where ever he goes.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

The guy said there was 5 problems with my comment, then named off 5 players. I actually responded to someone's post and addressed what he thought was the problems. Then you march into this thread acting like a douche, (which is nothing new for you) not even putting in any input, just attacking me.

Straw Man to Ad Hominem, NICE!

 

[Kid Chocolate]

I find 5 problems with your "team oriented....great hustling defensive unit" comment: Arenas, Watson, Williams, Mohammed, Ely.

Funny story how Watson and Mohammed are both good players, with Mohammed contributing to the Spurs before, another team oriented team. Marcus Williams and Melvin Ely will barely play in a playoff rotation. Arenas is also a great player, and is one of the most dominant scorers in the NBA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

[Denny Crane]

There's no straw man here. Ad homenim perhaps.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

There's no straw man here. Ad homenim perhaps.

"They aren't good team oriented, defensive hustling players"

"No, Watson and Mohammad are good players, and Arenas is a dominant scorer."

 

[Denny Crane]

"They aren't good team oriented, defensive hustling players"

"No, Watson and Mohammad are good players, and Arenas is a dominant scorer."

Still not a straw man.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

Still not a straw man.

Why not?

 

[Denny Crane]

Why not?

He's refuting your argument.

On the other hand, calling his argument a straw man argument IS a straw man argument. Go figure

 

[pegs]

He never actually addressed my argument, therefore, my statement still stands.

 

[pegs]

He's refuting your argument.

On the other hand, calling his argument a straw man argument IS a straw man argument. Go figure

Refuting what argument? He never addressed anyone's argument, he decided to make one up himself.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

He's refuting your argument.

On the other hand, calling his argument a straw man argument IS a straw man argument. Go figure

I didn't make any argument. I'm not even involved in it. I just said that his argument was a straw man. Calling something a straw man is NOT a straw man in itself.

Pegs claimed that they aren't hustling, defensive, team oriented players.
He responded saying that Watson, Mohammad were good players and Arenas is a dominant scorer.
That's not responding to any claims, which makes it a straw man.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

Refuting what argument? He never addressed anyone's argument, he decided to make one up himself.

Which is exactly why it's a straw man. He attributed the argument of that they aren't good players to you, which you never said.

 

[Denny Crane]

I didn't make any argument. I'm not even involved in it. I just said that his argument was a straw man. Calling something a straw man is NOT a straw man in itself.

Pegs claimed that they aren't hustling, defensive, team oriented players.
He responded saying that Watson, Mohammad were good (team) players and Arenas is a dominant scorer (they should play well together).
That's not responding to any claims, which makes it a straw man.

See the bolded part.

Straw man argument is setting up some other argument that's theoretically easy for you to defend, as you are with calling his argument a straw man argument.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

See the bolded part.

Straw man argument is setting up some other argument that's theoretically easy for you to defend, as you are with calling his argument a straw man argument.

There's a difference between setting up a straw man and an actual straw man argument. I'm not setting up a straw man, I'm calling his actual argument a straw man.

Funny story how Watson and Mohammed are both good players, with Mohammed contributing to the Spurs before, another team oriented team. Marcus Williams and Melvin Ely will barely play in a playoff rotation. Arenas is also a great player, and is one of the most dominant scorers in the NBA. He fits in nice with Dalembert, Lee, Iggy, & Brewer, so there is no problem there.

You bolded him saying Watson and Mohammed are both good (team) players. I don't see anything of him saying they are good team players. He said they are good players. Saying Arenas should fit in nicely with your team is irrelevant, that doesn't make him a good team player. Saying he is one of the most dominant scorers in the NBA, however, is a straw man when responding to a claim that he's not a team oriented, hustling, defensive player.

The only thing that remotely comes close to addressing any points Pegs made was saying that Nazi contributed to the Spurs, who were a team oriented team.

 

[Denny Crane]

Let me be clearer:

Chicago is so team oriented and have such a great hustling defensive unit, how are they not winning this? Their only weak spot IMO is @ back-up SG, but Brewer, Arenas, & Iggy can play all those minutes with Ross or Earl Watson playing SF or PG.

Funny story how Watson and Mohammed are both good players, with Mohammed contributing to the Spurs before, another team oriented team. Marcus Williams and Melvin Ely will barely play in a playoff rotation. Arenas is also a great player, and is one of the most dominant scorers in the NBA. He fits in nice with Dalembert, Lee, Iggy, & Brewer, so there is no problem there.

His argument is clear. He's stated the players are team oriented each time.

You've distorted his argument (saying he just called them "good" players) then called it a straw man, hence you are the one with the straw man argument.

 

[GMJ]

I don't think they're paying as much attention to the team-oriented part, as they are here:

Arenas is also a great player, and is one of the most dominant scorers in the NBA.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

Let me be clearer:





His argument is clear. He's stated the players are team oriented each time.

You've distorted his argument (saying he just called them "good" players) then called it a straw man, hence you are the one with the straw man argument.