Forum Game How do you build a contender around Dame in the next couple years?

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Idog1976 said:
You'd need to be able to trade either Nurk or Nas/Keon/Hart for someone like Randle, Siakam, or Simmons using picks and cap space in a lop-sided trade. Obviously, you'd want to keep Nurk and Little if you could. We are gonna have to get lucky that out of our stable of SF sized guys Nas/Keon/Hart one of them develops into a good defender who can hit the 3 and who is healthy enough to stay on the floor (I'm looking at you Little). We need a PF who can defend at an elite level and for one of our myriad undersized SF's to show the fuck out.

I'm extremely concerned at this point that we can get it done. I still contend that IF that trade for CJ + 3 picks and 3 swaps for Simmons was actually real then that was most definitely the trade to make. Our CJ "haul" was at best mediocre (how the FUCK did we not get 2 1st round picks or Herb Jones for CJ PLUS Nance?!?!?!)

We need to see a really homerun play here by Cronin and I'm thinking the only real possibility is Randle. I dunno if we could swing Nurk plus one of the young SF's I mentioned plus a pick for Jaylen Brown maybe? Then somehow ALSO get Randle? Fuck man I dunno, it doesn't look good anymore the cupboard is crazy bare. Worse, at this point, we kinda HAVE to assume Ant is going to be a star, or else we fucked up big time. So, therefore, trading Ant for anything short of Giannis-level talent would be a mistake because then we are back down to 2 players and a bare cupboard. MAYBE we could rebuild from that point somehow, but I dunno.
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Keon Johnson is 6'3.5 with an 8'1 standing reach. Norman Powell was 6'3 with an 8'6.5 standing reach. If Norm wasn't a SF-sized player, how is Keon Johnson?
 
Something tells me Dame has something up his sleeve. He knows as well as anyone that FA's don't sign here. So, why would he sign off on these moves unless a) he knows that some big talent has a silent agreement to sign here or force a trade here, b) he knows he's being traded as part of the rebuild. I have faith that a) is the most likely plan.
 
cheesehoff said:
Something tells me Dame has something up his sleeve. He knows as well as anyone that FA's don't sign here. So, why would he sign off on these moves unless a) he knows that some big talent has a silent agreement to sign here or force a trade here, b) he knows he's being traded as part of the rebuild. I have faith that a) is the most likely plan.
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I have faith that b) is the most likely plan, but I hope it's a).
 
Idog1976 said:
and for one of our myriad undersized SF's to show the fuck out.
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BonesJones said:
Keon Johnson is 6'3.5 with an 8'1 standing reach. Norman Powell was 6'3 with an 8'6.5 standing reach. If Norm wasn't a SF-sized player, how is Keon Johnson?
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He's not a SF-sized player, but really only Winslow is. Nas is short AF too, it's just Powell was smaller and Keon is even smaller. If our haul for RoCo and Powell was for a guy they envision playing the 1 or 2 rather than undersized SF then we are even worse off. Again I'm saying one of these guys needs to transcend their size as Nas is too small to play SF really against the elite ones. I'm trying to paint how truly hopeless our situation is with the GAPING hole at PF and our SF's being undersized to put it mildly.
 
Idog1976 said:
He's not a SF-sized player, but really only Winslow is. Nas is short AF too, it's just Powell was smaller and Keon is even smaller. If our haul for RoCo and Powell was for a guy they envision playing the 1 or 2 rather than undersized SF then we are even worse off. Again I'm saying one of these guys needs to transcend their size as Nas is too small to play SF really against the elite ones. I'm trying to paint how truly hopeless our situation is with the GAPING hole at PF and our SF's being undersized to put it mildly.
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For your information (and clearly you need a lot) Justice Winslow measured the same exact height as Nas at his predraft, had the same exact standing reach & was 3 lbs lighter. They are both squarely in SF size range as FYI no one plays hoops with the top of their head. Good grief, research then post.

https://www.nbadraft.net/2015-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

STOMP
 
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oldmangrouch said:
Rebuilds require assets. None of Cronin's moves have been motivated by asset aquisition.
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we have potentially two lottery picks, cap space if we choose it expiring contracts, a superstar, a couple of good young players and trade exception. We have options more than we had before while I question some of the trades at least we aren’t locked in anymore.
 
I was mad about the Jermaine trade for an entire decade. Looks like I get to do that all over again now. When do we get to be the team that rips off someone else?
 
LayneStaley said:
I was mad about the Jermaine trade for an entire decade. Looks like I get to do that all over again now. When do we get to be the team that rips off someone else?
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When Keon Johnson becomes a stud!!

No, I don't believe it either.
 
STOMP said:
For your information (and clearly you need a lot) Justice Winslow measured the same exact height as Nas at his predraft, had the same exact standing reach & was 3 lbs lighter. They are both squarely in SF size range as FYI no one plays hoops with the top of their head. Good grief, research then post.

https://www.nbadraft.net/2015-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

STOMP
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Kevin Durant is 6'10", LBJ is 6'9", Kawhi and Luka are 6'7" none of them are remotely defendable by guys who are 6'5" tall unless they are exceptional defenders which none of the SF's we have are, and yes I am aware that length matters. They have Winslow at an inch taller than Nas on ESPN which is what I went with. Any reason you decided to be rude rather than just state your points?

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3135047/justise-winslow

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395652/nassir-little
 
Don't remember which thread it was in, but I think I'm pretty much down with the plan articulated by someone else in here: male every effort to use the picks, youngsters and TPE to make deals for impact forwards to reload around Dame, and then if they're unable to make that happen within the first couple weeks of July, deal Dame for the biggest package you can get. It's time.
 
LayneStaley said:
I was mad about the Jermaine trade for an entire decade. Looks like I get to do that all over again now. When do we get to be the team that rips off someone else?
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We already did that under Pritchard with Batum, Roy and Aldridge. Sadly Roy's knees weren't made for longevity.
 
1 Eye Jack said:
we have potentially two lottery picks, cap space if we choose it expiring contracts, a superstar, a couple of good young players and trade exception. We have options more than we had before while I question some of the trades at least we aren’t locked in anymore.
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So do you feel we have more assets and ability to rebuild now than we did two weeks ago?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Don't remember which thread it was in, but I think I'm pretty much down with the plan articulated by someone else in here: male every effort to use the picks, youngsters and TPE to make deals for impact forwards to reload around Dame, and then if they're unable to make that happen within the first couple weeks of July, deal Dame for the biggest package you can get. It's time.
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if Portland is going to trade Dame...big if....but if they are I think they have to bet on Dame showing he's still a force next season. The trade deadline will be a better time for a Dame trade than the off-season following the worst season of his career, followed by surgery for a chronic injury. The "couple of weeks" deadline is not logical IMO. Impatience won't be Portland's ally
 
List Free Agents you want Cronin to go after.
 
Clone Dame, Jordan, Durant, Lebron, Sabonis.

Wait 18 years.

Profit!
 
wizenheimer said:
if Portland is going to trade Dame...big if....but if they are I think they have to bet on Dame showing he's still a force next season. The trade deadline will be a better time for a Dame trade than the off-season following the worst season of his career, followed by surgery for a chronic injury. The "couple of weeks" deadline is not logical IMO. Impatience won't be Portland's ally
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I figured if we're going full rebuild, we would want to have another tank year, which we wouldn't want a healthy Dame to affect. The two weeks thing isn't a "deadline" per se, just an approximation of how long it would take to know whether or not the FO would be able to give Dame a legit shot at a contender.

But sure, your way is an option too.
 
Portland is always going to require a MVP level player and an all-star or 2 all-NBA players to really contend.

We've struggled to obtain one of those guys, but we're lucky to have one right now. The difficult part is adding that second one. The league has shown the best way for a small market team to obtain an all-NBA players is through the draft or trade. Free agency isn't likely at all.

Obviously with the draft, the better the pick you have the better chance you're going to have. The negative in Nate's question is that given Dame's age and elite draft talents being 19-20 years old, it's hard to imagine a player being ready to be that All-NBA player in the next 3 years.

As for trade, I think it's obvious the teams that are giving up all-NBA players in the last few years are typically looking for a hard rebuild which includes a good pick, young players, and nice salaries. Portland has not had those things for years. However, I would argue right now, we have Ant, potentially two lottery picks, and really zero bad contracts. Assuming we don't crap the bed and sign Evan Turner, Meyers Leonard, Festis, Harkless, and Crabbe to $200m this summer and instead, sign prudent, shorter deals, we should be in a position to jump in if a team like Minnesota wants to waive the white flag on Townes, Beal in Washington, or maybe the Brooklyn or Boston plans don't work out next year and they decide to pivot.

That's what I think the path is. Do I think we're more than 50% likely to hit that path? No. Do I think a 100% rebuild is likely to yield two all-NBA players? No, because I have not seen any evidence that we are likely to find one person as good as Dame, let alone two, so I would prefer we stick with a bird in the hand and try to get lucky adding one more vs having to get lucky twice.
 
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PtldPlatypus said:
I figured if we're going full rebuild, we would want to have another tank year, which we wouldn't want a healthy Dame to affect. The two weeks thing isn't a "deadline" per se, just an approximation of how long it would take to know whether or not the FO would be able to give Dame a legit shot at a contender.

But sure, your way is an option too.
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I see your logic about the draft pick...but in my view, it's a bit flawed for a simple reason: if trading Dame is going to yield the type of return so many here are anticipating, then the Blazer pick won't be that good anyway. People are expecting a talent back like Simmons or Jaylen Brown...just to start. And the anticipated draft assets aren't going to be special because no lottery team will be trading for Dame. It will be contenders or near contenders and those teams will have some shitty draft picks for the 2-4 years after trading for Dame. And getting any future picks 5-7 years out are pretty worthless, For chrissakes, Simons will be near Dame's age when those pick(s) might be good ones

I think the pool of teams willing, and able, to trade for Dame and his super-max will be real limited. 3-4 at most
 
Here’s my plan…

Send a 2023 1st for Grant

Resign Ant and Nurk(Meh)

Sign Miles Bridges in FA

Draft AJ Griffin with our pick

Draft BPA with NO pick or if it lands at 12-14 send it to Indy for Turner

Dame/FA
Ant/Hart/Keon
Bridges/Griffin/Hughes
Grant/Nas/Winslow
Nurk/Turner/GB3

Fuck I don’t know, is that better than what we just had? I’m sure there are salary cap problems with this.
 
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LayneStaley said:
Here’s my plan…

Send a 2023 1st for Grant

Resign Ant and Nurk(Meh)

Sign Miles Bridges in FA

Draft AJ Griffin with our pick

Draft BPA with NO pick or if it lands at 12-14 send it to Indy for Turner

Dame/FA
Ant/Hart/Keon
Bridges/Griffin/Hughes
Grant/Nas/Winslow
Nurk/Turner/GB3

Fuck I don’t know, is that better than what we just had?
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who are you trading for Grant?. If it's the TPE, AND you re-sign Ant there won't be any cap-space to sign Bridges
 
calvin natt said:
It’s such a shitty list it’s depressing. Zach Lavine? Kevon Looney and let Nurk go? I don’t know. It is not a good year for FA
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i think it’s got to be a trade, teams like the lakers, Boston and Philly could potentially break up if they have bad post seasons
 
LayneStaley said:
Here’s my plan…

Send a 2023 1st for Grant

Resign Ant and Nurk(Meh)

Sign Miles Bridges in FA

Draft AJ Griffin with our pick

Draft BPA with NO pick or if it lands at 12-14 send it to Indy for Turner

Dame/FA
Ant/Hart/Keon
Bridges/Griffin/Hughes
Grant/Nas/Winslow
Nurk/Turner/GB3

Fuck I don’t know, is that better than what we just had?
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We owe our 2023 2st to Chicago.

If you keep Ant and Nurk you don't have enough money for Bridges. Charlotte probably matches anyway. We also can't use cap space and our TPE.
 
LayneStaley said:
Here’s my plan…

Send a 2023 1st for Grant

Resign Ant and Nurk(Meh)

Sign Miles Bridges in FA

Draft AJ Griffin with our pick

Draft BPA with NO pick or if it lands at 12-14 send it to Indy for Turner

Dame/FA
Ant/Hart/Keon
Bridges/Griffin/Hughes
Grant/Nas/Winslow
Nurk/Turner/GB3

Fuck I don’t know, is that better than what we just had? I’m sure there are salary cap problems with this.
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Dame and Ant as a starting backcourt is such a bad idea. It's so annoying. A younger and cheaper CJ. Because it worked so well the first time.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Dame and Ant as a starting backcourt is such a bad idea. It's so annoying. A younger and cheaper CJ. Because it worked so well the first time.
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I'm hoping Ant evolves differently. Maybe with Billups coaching he'll be a better defender. I think he's shown better playmaking skills than CJ at an early stage.
We'll see. It might work
 
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