Zombie Derrick Jones to Portland

[Rastapopoulos]

Ah yes, that well known long-limbed shot contester DJ Augustin.

 

[B-Roy]

Harkless got the BAE for 3.6 in Miami....

 

[PCmor7]

Been highly against DeRozan so I'm not sure about that.

So you aren't in the 85%.

 

[PCmor7]

Ah yes, that well known long-limbed shot contester DJ Augustin.

Thinking only guys with length can defend is kind of like thinking only guys who can shoot 3s can play offense.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Thinking only guys with length can defend is kind of like thinking only guys who can shoot 3s can play offense.

Ah yes, DJ Augustin, known throughout his career for his elite defense.

 

[PCmor7]

Ah yes, DJ Augustin, known throughout his career for his elite defense.

Now you are arguing against actual statistics. Sometimes players improve. Sometimes players are better in one aspect than another (for instance, they score but they do it because they move well without the ball instead of being lights-out shooters). Sometimes the to--the-eye perception doesn't match the facts.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Now you are arguing against actual statistics. Sometimes players improve. Sometimes players are better in one aspect than another (for instance, they score but they do it because they move well without the ball instead of being lights-out shooters). Sometimes the to--the-eye perception doesn't match the facts.

I'm not arguing against statistics. I'm arguing against the incautious misuse of statistics.

Look, I happen to think that RPM shows us something, but if it shows that the best players in the country are LeBron James, Giannis Antetokoumnpo and Alex Caruso, then I'm inclined to think that it's flawed. Talking of which, Defensive RPM does not think much of Jones Jr.: apparently he's the 69th (nice) best small forward at whatever it is it measures.

 

[PCmor7]

https://hoopshabit.com/2019/03/08/orlando-magic-d-j-augustin-proved-us-wrong/

"Defensively there is no slip-up either, despite the aforementioned height that Augustin regularly gives up to opponents.

"Since the All-Star break, the Magic have had the second-best defensive rating in the league (104.3). For the season as a whole, they are up to ninth in this category (107.8). Yet when Augustin is out there, that number shrinks to an even better 106.6. He is not getting the credit he deserves for his two-way play, or at least, his ability not to be a negative defensively for the team."

 

[BonesJones]

So you aren't in the 85%.

I wouldn't say it's that high. Frozen cant shoot or defend. He'd be a worse fit.

 

[illmatic99]

Man Avery Bradley would be a tremendous addition.

 

[PCmor7]

I'm not arguing against statistics. I'm arguing against the incautious misuse of statistics.

No. You are arguing against statistics in this case.

If you wanted to say "DJ Augustin is tough on the 3-point line but its because he sells out to stop that and gives up a lot of easy drives to the bucket in trade," that would be saying the statistics don't tell the whole story and are misleading. But you're saying the stats are misused simply because you don't like what they say.

Let's look at the progression here. First, someone said Jones was a defensive asset. You responded asking for a source, saying you didn't think he was anything more than a dunker. You got a source. Then you moved goalposts again. Now it's that the stats are right, but the cake's a lie.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

https://hoopshabit.com/2019/03/08/orlando-magic-d-j-augustin-proved-us-wrong/

"Defensively there is no slip-up either, despite the aforementioned height that Augustin regularly gives up to opponents.

"Since the All-Star break, the Magic have had the second-best defensive rating in the league (104.3). For the season as a whole, they are up to ninth in this category (107.8). Yet when Augustin is out there, that number shrinks to an even better 106.6. He is not getting the credit he deserves for his two-way play, or at least, his ability not to be a negative defensively for the team."

Do you honestly think that that would transfer? That Augustin on another team would be as good? He's a cog in a good defensive machine. And the Heat were a great defensive machine.

Look: Jones BETTER be fucking good at defense, because he's not good at anything else. But it's funny that when the playoffs rolled around and the Heat heated up, his ass was glued to the bench.

 

[PCmor7]

I wouldn't say it's that high. Frozen cant shoot or defend. He'd be a worse fit.

So you aren't in the 85%.

 

[PCmor7]

Do you honestly think that that would transfer? That Augustin on another team would be as good? He's a cog in a good defensive machine. And the Heat were a great defensive machine.

Look: Jones BETTER be fucking good at defense, because he's not good at anything else. But it's funny that when the playoffs rolled around and the Heat heated up, his ass was glued to the bench.

Ah. Now we've moved the goalposts to "it's team defense." It might be, but you're in another part of the country from where you started your argument. We're not even talking Jones as much as Augustin, now.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

No. You are arguing against statistics in this case.

Here's what I'm arguing against: the claim that opponent's FG% when you're on the floor is a flawless way to rank individual defenders. Suppose you're a great defender but your coach says you have to help. "Your guy" is going to get more open shots and you look bad. But it's because of the defensive scheme.

 

[tykendo]

Terrible, Terrible signing. I was ready to give NO huge probs but i knew he can stil fuck things up. This dude shot 22% from 3, for how many years now we have seen in the Playoffs that at least one of our wings was not guarded and that killed us. Sigh[/QUOTNeil still deserve

Man Avery Bradley would be a tremendous addition.

Where's he going to get minutes? CJ is the starter, backed up by up & comer Trent Jr. ( who just happens to be a Doberman on defense). Just don't see it.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

It will be interesting to see how he fits.

• He is great on lobs. We don't really do that.
• He is great in transition. We don't really do that.
• He is good in a zone defense. Uh, we rarely do that
• He is not good shooting '3's. We do a LOT of that.

Great points.

Will the system change to accommodate new talent?

 

[BonesJones]

This is a perfect pickup for this team! Truly an impressive off-season for having so little to work with. Bring on 2021! Sorry to see so many of you are miserable. Should be a fun season to watch.

Idk how a guy who shoots 28% from 3, needs to play I'm the fast break and transition (we dont), and nerds to be used as a cutter/mover (we dont) is a perfect fit but hopefully hes what everyone thinks he'll he, and not a disappointment like Hezonja was. The arguments I'm getting in over him remind me a ton of the ones over Hezonja last year.

 

[TBpup]

Great points.

Will the system change to accommodate new talent?

One would hope.

 

[Mediocre Man]

LINK?

I've never heard Jones described as an elite anything other than dunker.

Stat has been shown . I hope the move is a good one

 

[Mediocre Man]

Perfect move defensively. We're needed two-way players though. Apparently you don't value the offensive end of the ball for a guy like Jones.

Ideally, yes. But he’s a slasher and a good defender. Maybe the second unit gets out and runs a bit?

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

He has a loooooooooooong explanation of his statistical analysis, but here's the explanation:

JaMychal Green (PO), Clippers — $3,437,062

I’ve listed Green with the power forwards because he’s 6-8, 225, but his best position might be center. He’s not a threat off the dribble, but he shot 38.7 percent on 3s last season, and that’s no fluke. His ability to drag opposing bigs away from the hoop helps create space for everyone else, and he can post up a switch with is jump hook game. Defensively, he’s lost a bit of lateral quickness from his Memphis peak but his wiry strength is underrated and he’s a solid rebounder.

Green has a $5-million player option for this season. In a tough market for veteran bigs, he’s probably better off picking it up and trying against next year. That’s particularly true if Montrezl Harrell leaves L.A., as it would give Green a chance to more fully establish his bona fides at center.​

That's interesting. I guess that would be the only reason I can see to sign Jones over Green; that apparently they don't think he is mobile enough to defend anyone but centers. As I pointed out; if you average out his 3 pt shooting over the last 4 years, he is a lot better than Milsap and his rebounding is better than Milsap. But if he can only play effectively as a center, we are covered there with Nurkic, Kantor and Collins. Looks like Milsap wants to stay in Denver and Harrel was determined to go to LA and our other targets like Woods want more $ than we had. Crowder determined to stay in Miami. Noel, maybe is a center also and determined to join friends in Philly. So maybe we took the best free agent left.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

the opportunity cost is my big issue. We coulda spread that 9.5 mil on multiple players who are better. gamble like this is unnecessary.

Who is available to “spread” that money on that would play in Portland?

 

[RoseCityRebel]

Man Avery Bradley would be a tremendous addition.

Avery Bradley doesn’t do anything well offensively. He’d be unplayable and disgruntled with his 10ppg in Portland.

 

[blazerkor]

You know what else is funny about this? That 85% of these same people will clamor for Demar Derozan, esp if it means trading CJ.

Out of all of the trade ideas I've had that would rid us of the horrible fit that CJ is on this team DeRozan was never a target. He's just not what we need.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Welcome to Portland

Who will throw those lobs for him?

 

[Tince]

Uh, I'll say Stotts utilized him well if I see him being utilized well.

Can't be wrong that way... smart play!

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Two observations:
1. Derrick Jones played 24 mpg for the Heat in the regular season... but only 8 in the playoffs. When the Heat wanted to up their game, they sat him (like Kendrick Nunn - who actually played almost double Jones' minutes in the playoffs)
2. The Nuggets just signed Green, who plays a position of greater need for us, for less:

The Athletic is claiming this guy can really only play center. Has anyone watched him enough to know if that's true?

 

[Tince]

It's crazy how the same people who hated the Aminu/Harkless pairing because of their shooting are excited about the acquisitions of forwards that shot 33.5% and 28.0% from 3 last year.

Please raise your hand if you fit in this category. I keep hearing these statement be made, but I don't know who these people are!

If you trashed the offensive shortfall caused by Harkless/Aminu and love these two additions, now is the time to own it, and explain why.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Ideally, yes. But he’s a slasher and a good defender. Maybe the second unit gets out and runs a bit?

I hope for this too; but who will run that 2nd unit? Hezonja was the only one last year who even tried to run a fast break. He was bad at it, but he tried.