Gary "Hard Cap" Payton

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by WesleyMatthews, Jul 6, 2022.

  1. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Who is the best on ball defender we have had while Dame has been here?

    Matthews?

    I'm really hoping that Payton can rub off on Dame and Ant a little bit.
     
  2. HoopsFanAZ

    HoopsFanAZ Active Member

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    I enjoy looking for indicators that a guy in Summer League or the GLeague projects to the NBA … exceeds thresholds, multi-tool, movement, good feet …

    Keon? He may need to go where there’s an opportunity for court time, but he’s only 20. PG skill building even if he’s just a SG. Defense. Good to keep, good to trade. GB3? He’s only 20 but really raw at 6’7.25 with a 7’0.25 wingspan and not thick. He has time to develop. Less skilled than Keon by a lot.

    Watford? 6’7.5 with a 7’2.25 wingspan … Kevin Looney is 6’8 with a 7’3.5 wingspan. Watford as a back-up PF/C? Yeah, maybe. It took Looney a bit to become a decent starter.

    How many of Keon, Watford, Alexander, Walker, GB3 can become good NBA role players, soon (if at all)? I try not to make too much of one Summer League or even one season …

    GP2 had one season … one BIG impact series for the Warriors vs. the Celtics. He was obvious in his effect upon both teams. It has taken him awhile to hit … last year. What will he become for the Blazers? Defensive stud whose offense grows little bit by bit and a huge fan favorite? That’s my guess.
     
  3. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    Turner was good. Aminu and Harkless were very good. Hood pre injury wasn't bad. Bazemore was really good but couldn't hit the ocean on his shots. Ariza had a nice month of games. Trent had stretches he looked good but was more up and down.

    Problem with the Olshey wings is they were either quality defenders listed above with offensive liability, or offensively great such as Melo/Kanter but no D. Need a balance between the two. Nurk and Powell are the only guys that have done well on both ends since LaMarcus.
     
  4. SIeepwalker

    SIeepwalker The lone sane poster

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    eh
     
  5. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    Defensively, yes Aminu and Harkless were very good. They lead a DameCJ starting group to the 8th best defense.

    I'm not saying they were quality all around starters, they weren't. They had major offensive limitations, especially vulnerable in the playoffs. But even the biggest haters have to acknowledge they provided a lot to the teams defense.
     
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  6. HoopsFanAZ

    HoopsFanAZ Active Member

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    Mo’s motor was not consistently high. He never won his position … not really. As a 6th or 7th man, go get ‘em on D and run and dunk? Yes. Aminu? More consistently strong D and a ridiculous moon ball 3. He worked hard and would’ve been a really good combo-forward-minutes-eating-6th man. [Zach Collins doesn’t even get a mention anymore.]

    Hoodie got the Achilles injury, but could’ve been an answer at SF (non-star but multi-skilled and decent on D) while ET was strictly an off the bench guy surrounded by shooters — he needed the ball in his hands and his D was good. A back-up point-forward. RoCo was maybe about even with Aminu. I liked Chief better. Powell is a SG. Period. I thought he could play at 3 but was wrong. He has advantages at the 2 and was actually a complementary piece to Dame (and Ant) … but Olshey wouldn’t trade CJ for a forward!

    The Blazers have run through numerous attempts at forward since LMA. Non-stars all. Grant — a 39th pick and an Olympian, a role player on a good team and a #1 option on a bad one — this should be an interesting year.
     
  7. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Yeah but I'm hoping that Payton gets up in Dame's shit.
     
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  8. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus They don't do much, you know Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Which one--the one we just signed, or his dad?
     
  9. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Both.... of course.
     
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  10. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    You think one of the best-paid players in the NBA is going to be influenced by a dude who was almost out of the NBA a year ago?

    It seems like Dame would have been motivated to improve on defense by now or he is what he is.
     
  11. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    Dame hasn't been totally healthy for years. Lateral quickness a challenge on many an occasion. Dame is a prideful person. Now healthy, i see him playing much better on defense.
     
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  12. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Was he not prideful before he got hurt?

    And you think his body is going to hold up better while he tries to play defense, too, than when he was younger and only focused on offense?

    I don't see the logic here. But we all can dream, I suppose.
     
  13. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Dame was injured, got it fixed, and now him being healthier means that his body will break down more? That doesn't make sense.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
  14. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    You kind of left off his point. He's older and now supposed to play defense better. Yes that leads to more injuries theoretically.
     
  15. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I think the system lends itself to Dame playing better defense and being able to carry less of the load on offense. I don't think he's shown that he is at the point in his career where his body is breaking down so I don't think any added effort is going to cause him to miss time or be less effective. He has been out for almost a year so I guess there are some unknowns and we'll just have to wait and see.
     
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  16. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Him being capable of playing better defense because he's healthier isn't going to be something that makes him more injured.
     
  17. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    Older and playing two ways? He is either going to play more defense or he isn't. You can't have it both ways. I don't know what Chauncey will ask of Lillard but i do know if he pushes him to become a two way player and keeps his minutes where they have been, 37-38 mins a game. Lillard will be susceptible to more injuries. Even more so since he is now older. Being healthy at the start of the season will have absolutely no bearing on that issue.
     
  18. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    He's healthier so he'll be able to move better defensively. Somehow that means more injuries because "more defense". Gotcha.
     
  19. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    It’s more about him playing harder and taking more risk is all I’m talking about.

    if you read my first response I apologize. That was not the message I was trying to convey.
    Just seems to me like his health doesn’t protect him from his own play.
     
  20. HoopsFanAZ

    HoopsFanAZ Active Member

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    Lillard just turned 32.

    Lebron 37, Anthony Davis 29 (old 29)
    CP3 37
    Kawhi Leonard 31 (old 31), PG13 32
    KD 33, Kyrie 30
    Curry 34, Klay 32, Draymond 32

    I’m just not concerned about Lillard in his prime. He’s “aging” really well. 20 games into the season, we’ll have tentative conclusions. By the trade deadline, MORE. Next summer is a pivot point.
     

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