Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by chris_in_pdx, Mar 23, 2012.
And this guy clearly demonstrated he has good judgement, so I guess I'm with you.
I don't know anything about you, but say you had a 14 year old son.
You'd be cool with it if some random guy decided your son was suspicious (for no real reason, judgement call on his part), and stalked him awhile ? Maybe, your son gets paranoid and runs. Random guy chases and confronts your son, so your son punches him in the face and tackles him in self defense. You feel random guy is now justified in shooting your son? Your reckless son totally attacked him!
If you think so, I think you're an idiot. Random stalker guy is obviously the aggressor.
In that hypothetical invented and fabricated situation, no, I probably wouldn't be cool with it.
In Zimmerman's own account:
Black kid is walking in rain, therefore he is suspicious, probably on drugs. Kid runs when he notices Zimmerman staring/following him. Zimmerman chases him.
Next there is a confrontation, the details of which are contested, which leaves kid dead. If the kid initiated the fight, it was in self defense and he was reasonable in doing so. If Zimmerman initiated it he was NOT justified in doing so.
Even if Treyvon Martin initiated the fight it was in self-defense as he was being stalked and felt threatened. How is Zimmerman NOT the aggressor?
Following someone is not an act of agression. In this case, it was a necessary but not sufficient condition for the confrontation. In order to say that this was murder would assume Zimmerman had intent to kill Martin. And that is only a conviction if there is clear and compelling evidence. There is a cloudy area here.
This seems more appropriate as manslaughter, if anything at all. It has become a media circus, but like most stories in America it will go away when the next story comes. Last week it was KONY, this week its this. The week after its something new.
I can't believe you, or anyone, can side with this crazy guy.
I also disagree with the above quote. So does the FBI, who are taking over the investigation.
We'll bump this in a month I guess then.
I'm not "siding" with Zimmerman, I'm just offering a different perspective than the masses, main stream media and special interest groups are doing. I watch the news and its disgusting to me. A lot of news stories are blown up out of proportion now a days without people doing some independent thinking or analysis of what is actually going on. You have everyone crying racism and forming a lynch mob instead of going through the proper legal channels.
Thats because the proper legal channels failed. That's the whole source of the outrage. The cops weren't even going to arrest the guy or put him on trial.
Even if Trayvon Martin ambushed and beat the shit out of Zimmerman for following him (which I don't think is the likely case and which much of the evidence, and witnesses don't support), I still think Zimmerman should be in jail for killing him. The local police tried to brush the whole thing under the rug.
It doesn't seem there was enough evidence. What would they arrest him for? That is for the District Attorney to decide, and its in their hands right now. There appeared to be no crime committed since he claimed self defense and it was corroborated by physical evidence.
EL PRESIDENTE has a long history of being anti-Black. It is of no surprise he supports Zimmerman.
Despite the other multiple witnesses who said Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon, that one of the detectives actually tried to correct a witness' statement when she said it was Trayvon, not Zimmerman, crying for help (the detective told her no, she was wrong, it was Zimmerman despite that detective not being there).
Despite the 911 calls where you can hear Trayvon crying in the background for his life, despite Trayvon's girlfriend being on the phone with him when Zimmerman started to stalk Trayvon. Despite Zimmerman calling Trayvon a well known racial slur against Black people on his own 911 call (I dare you to argue that it is anything but what it was, I dare you to be that anti-Black, EP).
Despite the police not testing Zimmerman for any type of drugs or alcohol in his system (but ha, they sure were quick to have Trayvon's body tested).
Ah, to be so anti-Black you defend a stalking child-killer.
What a wonderful world.
Having spent quite a bit of time around people who own guns, I definitely know the type. For every responsible gun owner, there's the gung-ho yahoo who thinks he's a cop without a badge. I've seen plenty of them. They go get their concealed handgun license, which is fine, but they actually hope for a reason to use their gun. They dress in tactical clothing like 5.11 and they wish they were law enforcement. They pose a serious threat to others around them because they feel "naked" without their gun.
1. He should not have followed him. If you're neighborhood watch you are supposed to WATCH. I have called 911 before because I saw something suspicious. I actually caught a guy robbing Jackson Middle School and I called 911. Unfortunately I couldn't identify him and I wasn't about to follow the guy. The cops caught him but they didn't have enough to go off of. I don't regret not following him. I'm not a cop and it's not my job to take the law into my own hands. If I had followed him I might have ended up putting myself in danger. Not worth the risk.
2. If he did initiate the aggression, he has no justification to pull his firearm. You can't punch someone in the face and then pull a gun when they fight back. That's not how the law works.
This guy should be put to death. We don't need gun owners like this guy running around making responsible people look bad. He clearly has bad judgement and I hope to god they take away his CHL if he has one.
I will also add that Portland PD is remarkably fast, so when you are thinking that you need to follow someone who is breaking the law, think again. They had the guy in handcuffs before I was even off the phone with 911 and all I had given them was a vague idea of where the guy was going.
beautiful, the race card. not surprising. everything in the world regarding all black people is racist.
following someone you believe is acting suspiciously is not stalking. a 6'3" 17 year old is not a "child". but keep on throwing out these emotional tools used by the media to elicit emotional responses instead of looking at the case itself.
Zimmerman being on top of Treyvon? I guess he got grass stains and a bloody face/broken nose from the air.
listened to the tape. sounds like he says pooks?
spooks? I heard people say he said "coons", but i didn't hear that. some people say punks. its kind of hard to say definitively.
Methinks your irony meter is broken.
Too late for what?
For Zimmerman to not shoot Treyvon Martin out of self defense. It could have happened fast and been reactionary, he was apparently beat up so might have been disoriented.
I am going to have to stick with the facts as I know them.
1) If the police thought they had a case aginst the guy, they would have charged him.
2) Not all the watch groups are like the Guardian Angles, who are the most extreme. Most people that carry a gun accept the responsibility and consequences. Pretty heady stuff.
3) If I am in his place, and felt that there was a need to follow the kid, I dont care what color he is, or how old he is, he would have my full attention. I would not follow him unless I was ready to protect myself.
oh, and as a side note, could he have said, "fuckin spooked him"? That would be in line with the phone conversation.
Zimmerman purportedly had a broken nose. That is not "beat up".
Witnesses said cries of help, then "no, no", then gunshot.
How is that "reactionary"?
How is it that Zimmerman was able to pull out his gun and shoot an unarmed person, yet was unable run away from the situation?
If Zimmerman was able to pull out his gun, why did he shoot it, instead of using as a club and pistol-whipping the victim?
would have been a funnier story if zimmerman got shot in the dick with his own gun, and then bled to death while he cried big baby tears and piss/shit himself
and as far as the broken nose/grass stains/etc...those are easily obtained by tackling someone from behind at a full run, just sayin'
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