Is Chauncey a good coach?

[Buffalo Custard]

First, I must offer the bitter observation that something is badly wrong when straight talk is decried and gaslighting is applauded.

That said, it is probably premature to judge Billups a failure as a coach. Conversely, he has done nothing to convince anyone he is a good coach.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The main evidence that Chauncey has promise is the blowout home wins @KSF-ERIC keeps reminding us of. Those are starting to look like flukes, or side-effects of the other teams not yet jelling (gelling?)

 

[Minstrel]

First, I must offer the bitter observation that something is badly wrong when straight talk is decried

Yes, people who are prone to throwing their co-workers under the bus usually say they're just "straight talkers." People usually see all the problems being in people who aren't them, then get surprised when their straight talk in blaming others is seen poorly. Human communication and relationships are more complex than buzzwords like "straight talk." Especially when you're talking about something unknowable (like what's in another person's head or "heart").

 

[PDXFonz]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yes, people who are prone to throwing their co-workers under the bus usually say they're just "straight talkers." People usually see all the problems being in people who aren't them, then get surprised when their straight talk in blaming others is seen poorly. Human communication and relationships are more complex than buzzwords like "straight talk." Especially when you're talking about something unknowable (like what's in another person's head or "heart").

Pretty sure I have a boss right now who would be very quick to decry the lack of pride of their subordinates, when in fact that boss is the one that saps all the joy out of the job.

And let's remember, Chauncey was Olshey's guy from the word go. Olshey compared Dame to Chauncey when Dame was drafted. If you hate Olshey, you have to wonder about his judgment.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

Pretty sure I have a boss right now who would be very quick to decry the lack of pride of their subordinates, when in fact that boss is the one that saps all the joy out of the job.

Thank you Rasta, for a moment of clarity. In the real world, a boss has the power. They are punching down. In the NBA, with a few exceptions, the coach is more court jester than boss. Their role is too make excuses and shield the players from consequences. Billups' honesty is unacceptable because he is punching up. He is speaking truth to power, and that is a crime. Even the fans believe this, as any coach caught making a truthful observation is "throwing his players under the bus."

You know what - I'm just fucking done.

 

[B-Roy]

I didn't realize Malone does it a lot. I know some extremely established coaches do it in certain spots (Popovich/Thibodeau), but Popovich is one of the several greatest coaches ever and Thibs seems to lose his team every few years. And I doubt any of them (maybe Malone did? No idea) did it a couple months into their first job.

Dunno, but here is one instance: https://clutchpoints.com/nuggets-ne...d-by-michael-malone-after-blowout-vs-blazers/, and another: https://sports.yahoo.com/nuggets-sp...ublic-criticism-i-felt-we-quit-154459330.html

Here are some Nuggets players who don't respond well to Malone's style of coaching: https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/01/0...eadership-criticism-nuggets-coach-apologizes/

I actually tend towards your line of thinking, in that it's a bit weird hearing a coach calling out their team in public, but maybe some players respond to it better than others. Malone has had some success in the NBA, so it's not like it's completely baffling. Chauncey has also praised the guys in wins, so he's not just trashing them when they're down. I don't think his criticism has been that harsh until the last few games, for obvious reasons.

 

[B-Roy]

It also doesn't help your (i.e., Chauncey's) case if his defensive scheme is openly questioned by commentators who know what they're talking about. Again, if you're a college coach and you can spin this into "you've got to learn how to do this one thing right before we can learn these other things" then you can defend doing X more than any other coach in the league. Chauncey not so much.

The stubborn scheme and rotations are something I can’t get by head around. I don’t know if Billups is a bad coach, but he’s definitely not shown he’s a good one….yet.

 

[Minstrel]

Dunno, but here is one instance: https://clutchpoints.com/nuggets-ne...d-by-michael-malone-after-blowout-vs-blazers/, and another: https://sports.yahoo.com/nuggets-sp...ublic-criticism-i-felt-we-quit-154459330.html

Here are some Nuggets players who don't respond well to Malone's style of coaching: https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/01/0...eadership-criticism-nuggets-coach-apologizes/

I actually tend towards your line of thinking, in that it's a bit weird hearing a coach calling out their team in public, but maybe some players respond to it better than others. Malone has had some success in the NBA, so it's not like it's completely baffling. Chauncey has also praised the guys in wins, so he's not just trashing them when they're down. I don't think his criticism has been that harsh until the last few games, for obvious reasons.

Yeah, as I alluded to in my original post, it's not like I've made up my mind of Billups...this could go multiple ways. This just seems like a red flag, considering it's not he's their long-time coach with firmly established relationships, but maybe it's just what most of them needed. Certainly, philosophically, it's not my ideal for how to manage people and personalities, but I recognize that it works for some people.

 

[riverman]

Players who don't execute make any coach look bad..Chauncey said a great team has to do the simple basics perfectly on defense and until they learn that they're not ready to expand the playbook...my take is he's frustrated with the lack of discipline on defense and the lack of ball movement and turnovers...he's clearly not happy with the team right now especially the starters...I think the Nurk, Roco frontcourt is not clicking and it's mostly on Roco ..then CJ is an issue...he is just wired to be an ISO guy at any cost

 

[brooklynballer]

I'd just like to hear from all those people who railed constantly against Stotts for his stupid coaching, and who said that Chauncey couldn't help but be a great improvement. Are you happy? Is this the improvement you wanted?

I will say this: so far we've been a good home team. If that stays true, that's definitely something.

Who, I would ask, instituted the fucking stupid-ass iso heavy offense and never ever in six years held the two “leaders” of this team to account for their abhorrent and non-existent defense? Oh, that’s right, one Mr Terry Stotts, who is as much to blame for this mess as Olshey was.

It’s gonna take more than 20 games for Billups to undo the 6+ years of damage Stotts inflicted on this team.

 

[Propagandist]

Who, I would ask, instituted the fucking stupid-ass iso heavy offense and never ever in six years held the two “leaders” of this team to account for their abhorrent and non-existent defense? Oh, that’s right, one Mr Terry Stotts.

It’s gonna take more than 20 games for Billups to undo the 6+ years of damage Stotts inflicted on this team.

Where are the bodies?

 

[brooklynballer]

Where are the bodies?

I don’t know about the bodies, but there sure are a lot of missing brains and spines on this team.

 

[Propagandist]

I don’t know about the bodies, but there sure are a lot of missing brains and spines on this team.

I was just noting your intensity. But it is true that the team looks like they give no shits, which is weird for these guys. That being said, I don’t think Chauncey can reach them. Roco is odd almost aloof, CJ is begging to be traded, Nurk is behaviorally bipolar, etc etc. We need changes in a big way…

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Who, I would ask, instituted the fucking stupid-ass iso heavy offense and never ever in six years held the two “leaders” of this team to account for their abhorrent and non-existent defense? Oh, that’s right, one Mr Terry Stotts, who is as much to blame for this mess as Olshey was.

It’s gonna take more than 20 games for Billups to undo the 6+ years of damage Stotts inflicted on this team.

So it wasn't the roster and it was the coaching. You must be really mad that Olshey was fired.

 

[blazerkor]

So it wasn't the roster and it was the coaching. You must be really mad that Olshey was fired.

Both guys needed to go and now they're gone. Stotts didn't put enough emphasis on defense and basically told everyone to go out and do what they do best. He also made them all feel really great about themselves. That's not a bad coaching style but unless you win big, any coaching style goes stale. Stotts had gone stale a while before he was fired but Olshey should have been fired first because he never put complementary pieces around Dame and operated under the delusion that Dame and CJ were the perfect first and second options to win a title with.

So it was the roster first and foremost but the coaching after 9 years, had run it's course. Like most coaches Stotts wasn't making more out of what he had than what they were and because of roster construction they weren't and aren't even as good as the sum of their parts. The idea that because it was more Olshey's fault that Stotts should have gotten a tenth try is not at all logical but they both should have been fired and Olshey never should have put the onus all on Stotts, that was some slimy bullshit.

 

[brooklynballer]

So it wasn't the roster and it was the coaching. You must be really mad that Olshey was fired.

Can you read? Plenty of blame to go around for both Olshey and Stotts. It’s not an either/or situation. I’m elated that both have been canned - five years too late imo. The players are also not blameless, in particular the core of Nurkic, Lillard and McCollum. No excuse for their lack of focus and energy. You can already see how the guard’s play (ie no defense hero ball) is rubbing off on guys like Ant.

 

[royo]

Yes, people who are prone to throwing their co-workers under the bus usually say they're just "straight talkers." People usually see all the problems being in people who aren't them, then get surprised when their straight talk in blaming others is seen poorly. Human communication and relationships are more complex than buzzwords like "straight talk." Especially when you're talking about something unknowable (like what's in another person's head or "heart").

Wonder what he supposed to say. Any coach will lose this bunch as soon as he (or Becky) ask them to work.
Stotts was soft and he manage to put pressure on them for three weeks (new def scheme learning fail). Billups is trying to teach them and the team is to blame, not him. They just want to play. Any kids will turn your house into mess if you let them and Stotts just wasn't good babysitter.
Half of the team is pushing Billups under the bus. He can either go Stotts way or straight talk.

 

[Minstrel]

Wonder what he supposed to say. Any coach will lose this bunch as soon as he (or Becky) ask them to work.
Stotts was soft and he manage to put pressure on them for three weeks (new def scheme learning fail). Billups is trying to teach them and the team is to blame, not him. They just want to play. Any kids will turn your house into mess if you let them and Stotts just wasn't good babysitter.
Half of the team is pushing Billups under the bus. He can either go Stotts way or straight talk.

Yes, yes, I know. The Big Bad Stotts. It'll always be his fault...even when it's the other guy, it's really Stotts.

Plus the players are selfish, lazy, horrible players. Billups is quite a victim. It's a shame he couldn't have known what awful people Stotts turned these players into before he took the job.

 

[royo]

Yes, yes, I know. The Big Bad Stotts. It'll always be his fault...even when it's the other guy, it's really Stotts.

Plus the players are selfish, lazy, horrible players. Billups is quite a victim. It's a shame he couldn't have known what awful people Stotts turned these players into before he took the job.

Must be your wife writing here recently

Just tell me, if 9 years is time long enough to shape young player, especially when he had one coach only. Who is to blame for their happy hero ball and lack of presence in defence. Could it be the coach, that let them do that for 9 years? I mean, is it even possible? Is it?

 

[GDiama]

Must be your wife writing here recently

Just tell me, if 9 years is time long enough to shape young player, especially when he had one coach only. Who is to blame for their happy hero ball and lack of presence in defence. Could it be the coach, that let them do that for 9 years? I mean, is it even possible? Is it?

I agree with this one. CJ and Dame for example have known only one coach in their NBA career. If that coach said for 9 years what they are doing is good and keep doing that then this is what they think it's right. And at 30 years old nobody is going to reconsider his game and make drastic changes. Especially since they can still score their 20+ points etc which means in their mind they are still very very good. You cannot take CJ's tunnel vision away at 30 years old. He should have been asked to be more of a ball mover 7 years ago. And as for Defense if you are not held accountable when you are a rookie then nobody will dare to say you a thing in this league when you are paid 30M. This is how it works.

 

[stampedehero]

Another day, another rant by Chauncey Billups calling out Blazers players (yahoo.com) Worth your read.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Not saying it would be a good look to fire Chauncey right now, but I am genuinely wondering, what's the fastest a coach has been fired? I know Jerry Tarkanian didn't last a season with the Spurs, but that might have been mutual, because he wasn't a spring chicken at the time.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Wonder what he supposed to say. Any coach will lose this bunch as soon as he (or Becky) ask them to work.

Oh yeah, they're just lazy. Lillard's famous for just getting fat in the offseason. Sure, CJ is perennially among league leaders in miles covered, but that's just cover for his laziness.

 

[Minstrel]

Must be your wife writing here recently

I'm sure this is meant as an insult, unfortunately I have no idea what it means.

Just tell me, if 9 years is time long enough to shape young player, especially when he had one coach only. Who is to blame for their happy hero ball and lack of presence in defence.

So your point is that changing coaches is pointless because Stotts is imprinted on these players forever. Thus, firing Stotts does nothing and Billups is useless here. Interesting perspective.

 

[Labinot41]

He is a good coach, we have seen it already. When we blew out the Suns, Grizzlies, Clippers, Lakers and we had good wins against the Bulls, Indiana, Raptors and Philadelphia. Unfortunately, his players have let him down multiple times, so the main issue i have with him is his talk about accountability. He has to held his players accountable, and not just talk about it

 

[royo]

I'm sure this is meant as an insult, unfortunately I have no idea what it means.



So your point is that changing coaches is pointless because Stotts is imprinted on these players forever. Thus, firing Stotts does nothing and Billups is useless here. Interesting perspective.

Why would I ever choose to insult you, Minstrel? I'm saying you defending Stotts, like "kids, leave this poor man alone".
Nothing will happen to him from few words on forum. And he seem like a really nice and smart guy as well.

And, btw, anyway, after what I see this season, I'm movin slowly to position, that maybe it was really not his fault and he overachieved with team he got. Idk.

About changing coaches, it was really not hard to see few years ago, that this ship not gonna fly. It took to long.

Can almost a decade of playing under one coach and only coach print a stamp on player? I sure think it is hard to change now.
Blazers haven't change coach and haven't change their backcourt for long stretch. Almost like they thought that "changing coaches is pointless".

 

[royo]

Oh yeah, they're just lazy. Lillard's famous for just getting fat in the offseason. Sure, CJ is perennially among league leaders in miles covered, but that's just cover for his laziness.

They sure are famous for their defense.

Take ten boys on the court and ask them, who wants to be the hero shooter and who wants to be best defender. And check their history of lazyness.
I think there might be some correlations to find.

So, I ment work. It is easy not be lazy at something that gives you shit tones of fun

 

[andalusian]

I think Chauncy has a chance of being a good coach, but it seems that he was a bad choice for a veteran team with a compromised roster (which is not his fault, it was NeO's fault).

Luckily, we have a different GM - and there is a chance the roster will change to give him a chance to succeed.

I will say however that Chauncy trying to make a good defensive team from that roster makes him acting like an alchemist - I don't care how many eyes of newt you are going to pour into that mix, it's not turning into gold.

On the other hand, Terry Stotts acted as an engineer - he had a worse roster defensively than this current team and the team did not look as miserable as this one. I have not before and I continue not to blame him for using the crappy resources he was given by the front-office as he did. He maximized that roster to the best of his abilities - which are a lot higher than a lot of this board gives him credit for.