Is it too soon to talk about defensive rating?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Duckhook, Oct 24, 2022.

  1. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

    Joined:
    May 2, 2021
    Messages:
    9,062
    Likes Received:
    7,410
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Currently the apartment in the Moda
    Anyone actually watching has to admit you are right on this. Yes personnel made a huge difference but there are the intangibles as well to consider. Scheme and just overall effort at times have improved. Billups might not be as rigid in his rotations. I liked that he tried things that "Might" work. I like that he stayed the course through some tough outings.
    I agree with your "Process" conclusion. Players have roles and they need to continue to stay in those roles.
     
    BonesJones likes this.
  2. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

    Joined:
    May 2, 2021
    Messages:
    9,062
    Likes Received:
    7,410
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Currently the apartment in the Moda
    I agree with you on this. Zach has all the things this team needs except the injury history.
     
  3. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    14,963
    Likes Received:
    14,322
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We can live with 17th!
     
  4. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    14,963
    Likes Received:
    14,322
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How can you attribute the marginal uptick in defensive rating to a "process" when the roster itself improved from a defensive standpoint?

    You have made me realize my assumption that you would be open to changing your stance was foolish on my part.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2022
  5. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    32,292
    Likes Received:
    40,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Has he necessarily attributed the uptick to process?
     
    Idog1976 likes this.
  6. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    21,148
    Likes Received:
    33,038
    Trophy Points:
    113
    --> phrases you never find in a song

    (maybe a Weird Al challenge?)
     
    PtldPlatypus and Tince like this.
  7. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    14,963
    Likes Received:
    14,322
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How can one know?

    The beauty of moving away from data and citing "process" is that it is vague enough, you can always be right. You've seen both Danny Marang and Bones defend their opposite thesis by citing "process".
     
    Duckhook and THE HCP like this.
  8. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    66,168
    Likes Received:
    52,513
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    N.E.P.
    So let me gets this right....we bring in better defensive players and we get better on D? #FireStotts
     
    Duvalier likes this.
  9. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    90,590
    Likes Received:
    52,665
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    RoCo and Norm were supposed to be better defensive players too :lol:
     
  10. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    56,360
    Likes Received:
    54,154
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYstateofmind
    I've said this before but think it's worth reiterating.

    We currently rank 23rd in DRTG allowing 113.5 points per 100 possessions.

    The 10th ranked Toronto Raptors allow 111.5 points per 100 possessions.


    upload_2022-12-15_13-51-24.png

    That gap of 2 points per 100 possessions can be made up fairly easily with GP2 playing ~20 mins while taking away minutes from some of our weaker defenders. Sure there might be a slight decline in the offense if he mostly replaces Dame/Ant, but we currently score 114.3 points per 100 possessions and are ranked 7. If we score 2 fewer points, we would be 13th still...giving us both a top 15 offense and top 15 defense, which is also a recipe for 45-50 win team.

    That said, I also don't think the drop would be as big offensively as the potential gain defensively with just GP's addition.

    I think we're on the right track here.
     
  11. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    90,590
    Likes Received:
    52,665
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    He's gonna help the bench for sure. Our bench is very green right now, with the exception of Winslow. That's how you lose leads.
     
    Idog1976 and illmatic99 like this.
  12. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    44,459
    Likes Received:
    38,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    So the fact that Chauncey didn't throw in the towel defensively and just try to outscore teams like Stotts did isn't a good thing in your mind?


    Is the roster that much improved? Is Josh Hart, Jerami Grant, and Anfernee Simons that much better than Derrick Jones Jr, Robert Covington and CJ McCollum defensively?

    It's funny how we used to be a bottom 3 defense when healthy and you'd make excuse after excuse but now that we've improved to 21st after an injury-plagued season where guys have been clearly gassed due to having to play too many minutes, you have no credit to give.
     
    brooklynballer and Natebishop3 like this.
  13. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    44,459
    Likes Received:
    38,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    So let me gets this right....we bring in a better coach and we get better on D? #FireOlshey
     
    brooklynballer likes this.
  14. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    90,590
    Likes Received:
    52,665
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    That's the thing..... Stotts had defenders. Guys who had a long reputation of being solid defensively around the league. RoCo, DJJ, Norm..... so why couldn't he make it work?
     
  15. Duckhook

    Duckhook Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,103
    Likes Received:
    1,339
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    What's Stotts doing these days? I've seen him linked to a number of coaching positions but didn't get hired.
     
  16. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

    Joined:
    May 2, 2021
    Messages:
    9,062
    Likes Received:
    7,410
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Currently the apartment in the Moda
    Maybe he’ll get Nate’s job pretty quick?
    Wouldn’t that be kinda funny.
     
  17. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    14,963
    Likes Received:
    14,322
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1) I like Billups - I think we're doing some very good things.
    2) I disagree with your assumption that Billups is trying harder (or less) than Stotts. Nothing to back that up.
    3) I feel the versatility of the roster (defensively) is better 1-10 than it has been for a while, but see #4
    4) Comparing defensive rating 30 games in (this year) to a full season result would be unwise. The further we get from one roster to another, the more difficult it is to compare. We did have a defensive rating from last year (first 30 games before all the injuries) to best compare with the defensive rating of the 2020-21 season, of which had similar rosters. Both were horrible.
     
  18. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    18,939
    Likes Received:
    15,639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    PDX
    It's pretty obvious Chauncey is a better defensive coach and Terry offensive. Don't know how anyone can argue that right now.
     
    andalusian, Idog1976, Shaboid and 2 others like this.
  19. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    21,148
    Likes Received:
    33,038
    Trophy Points:
    113
    seems logical

    however, I just checked and this year's team has an offensive rating of 115.1. That's better than 8 of 9 Stotts teams. The only one that eclipsed that mark was the 2020-21 Blazer team that posted a 117.8. But that season was the high water mark for offenses around the NBA. That Blazer team also had Dame for 93% of the games. The current team has only had him for 57% of the games. That 20-21 team also had Enes Kanter or all 72 games and he was an offensive rating superstar. Dame's ORating was 125; Kanter's was 133. So it may be a little premature giving the nod to Stotts on offense

    that's probably an incomplete gauge though. Likely be better to look at where the Blazer offense ranked each year rather than their raw ratings numbers because each NBA season is different
     
    Idog1976 and HailBlazers like this.
  20. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    14,963
    Likes Received:
    14,322
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Correct. Comparing raw offensive or defensive ratings would probably not be the best measure.

    For example, in Billups two years the defensive ratings have been (113.5 and 116.3) which would be the worst and 4th worst defensive rating for Portland in the last 10+years.

    Currently, we're ranked 10th in the NBA if offensive rating. We were 27th last year. In the previous 8 seasons, we finished top 6, five different times. I do expect us to finish inside top 10 this year though.
     

Share This Page