Notice Joe Cronin New GM

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by THE HCP, May 10, 2022.

  1. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    because of the pick not conveying?
     
  2. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Because New Orleans wasn't willing to give up a top 10 pick in that trade.
     
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  3. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    My "assumption" is based on reporting.

    He's a shit negotiator if he was put between choosing those two things. He was already getting a lotto pick as value. He was the one selling the asset. So if he ended up getting strong-armed into a game of chance in the scenario where BOTH options would be better for New Orleans than the original trade, then he's truly not cut out for this.
     
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  4. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah man but like you said it's not really worth rehashing. It's done and now Joe can go to work with hopefully a lot of respect from his competitors because of the removal of interim and without "bad contracts" hanging over his head. Let's see what the guy can do.
     
  5. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    Hoopsjock was very clear on that point. CJ could just as likely come down with an ailment.
    I expect better. I also would have hated seeing that but it's the truth. As you already know I despise tanking but facts are facts.

    Then hoopsjock even took it further and dove in with a very rational take on what options could have happened and they were not contingent on what the Pelicans demands could have been. Essentially keeping CJ simply keeps the asset and not only could they still have tanked but that asset might even be better going forward at this point. losing that pick the way the Blazers did was a bad look. this hill you are standing on seems odd. IMO hoopsjock is correct on this.
     
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  6. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    I think a lot of Blazers fans thought CJ would excel on another team. I said as much in the past. I think what we didn't see, was Nance, somehow getting healthy and playing wayyyy better than he did as a Blazer. Add in Dooby Eyes playing more consistent late in the season, and the emergence of Herb Jones( who had been inconsistent as well) and Jose Alvarado and you get a perfect storm. Imagine if Morey-on had taken CJ, and the Blazers got the malingering Simmons in return. I don't care if he really does have a back injury. Dude's not made of the right stuff. Philly might actually still be playing, instead of being bogged down with losing , again, and having to sign the Chubby Chia to a max deal.
     
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  7. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    it's become a monotonous argument, mainly because you guys believe CJ and Powell were much better assets with better value than I, and many others do...and as it turns out, what the 'market' said. Agree to disagree on that

    but I will say, again, I think the idea that the Blazers could continue with their February roster and then find better trades around the draft and in summer is make-believe; it's nonsense. Blazers would have had 130M in salaries....135M if they had a late lotto pick. 14M below the tax line and they would have still had to re-sign Simons and Nurkic. If they combine to make 40M Portland would have been 25M over the tax line...and they wold have still needed 2 more players to hit the minimum roster level.

    They'd have potentially been facing a 65M luxury tax bill for a team that would probably be around .500 and a play-in team. All you guys talking about how Cronin didn't use leverage at the trade deadline need to explain how the situation this summer would have given him leverage in trying to dump CJ & Powell. Other teams would have known that the Blazers absolutely had to move those players...no alternative (the Vulcans are no secret around the league). Not only that, with Portland in that kind of bind, Simons, and possibly Nurkic might get much bigger offer sheets because teams would bet the Blazers could not afford to match.

    and finally, you guys seem to be assuming that it was 100% Cronin's call if the traded guys were kept past the deadline. I'm assuming a lot of the trade-them-now momentum in February came from Seattle
     
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  8. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    You've asked that question in this thread and I've answered it multiple times, like Bones says it's like you're doing it on purpose.

    It literally does NOT matter if it was on the table or not. A good GM would've made SURE it WAS. He messed up. It's that simple.
     
  9. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Memphis got the 10th pick in the previous draft in that trade.
     
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  10. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I get it now...a "good" GM will force the other team to trade assets they refuse to trade

    it's magic
     
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  11. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    This makes no sense, but if that is what Griffin says you explain once again that you're not accepting a trade that possibly ends up with them achieving their goal and the Blazers getting less value because of it. That's literally Cronin's job and a good GM would know when to call their bluff.
     
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  12. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    I was 100% on board with trading Norm, CJ, and RoCo. My only point about keeping them is that it wouldn't have changed our ability to tank, therefore the argument that our draft positioning was better because we traded those guys isn't accurate IMO.

    I was told back in December around the time Dame got his first cortizone shot and the Olshey firing that the team approached Dame about the possibilities of going young and building around Dame, Ant, and Nas. Dame said he would be on board with that process, but only if things started to go south and they didn't turn things around this season. Well, things went south.

    Personally, I loved it. However it takes assets to pull off and now it seems like a bunch of stuff have to break Portland's way.

    Lawrence Frank of the Clippers said he didn't think he'd be able to acquire two players the caliber they got with what little assets they had available to trade. That's directly out of his mouth. David Griffin echoed similar comments about CJ. The report that Portland didn't value draft capital as much as they should matches everything Cronin has said about making trades for flexibility.

    And again, the most likely scenario was the Blazers getting a lottery pick for CJ. That means his value was a lottery pick, no matter how many times you try to excuse that fact.

    Also, how many games any team was back or ahead or whatever when talking about the 7-10 seeds is completely meaningless. With the Play-In games, anything can happen with those seeds.
     
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  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    teams always make trades with the intention of "achieving their goal". If a team is on the edge of the lottery, and has a pick say a pick projected in the 12-16 range, and trades that pick (top-10 protected) for a player who helps the team go on a major winning streak to close the season. And the result is them sending out a 25th pick instead of a 12th, the other team gets less value because the team trading the pick achieved their goal with the trade....the goal being getting better that season. Trades like that happen all the time
     
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  14. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    :tornado:
     
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  15. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    I think it's way early to judge what Joe is building here so far and if people think it doesn't make sense, that's because they don't know what was negotiated...didn't read the room, understand the parameters and accept that the pick might not convey.that things happen behind closed doors....I think Joe knew all of this and if he'd played so called "hardball" and pulled out of the CJ, Norm, Roco trades waiting for more value several things could have happened...CJ could have stayed in Portland or worse...had an achilles tear and gotten injured and lost value yet still ate up a big chunk of cap space....Roco could have walked for nothing and the big elephant in the room is that Chauncey and Joe wanted Josh Hart and Justice Winslow .....hell Hart had a 44 pt game for us ....CJ didn't do that in the playoffs....Joe took a swing and unfortunately the pick didn't convey but we still got an asset down the road for it . Joe hasn't even entered the free agency season or draft yet...he also has to repair relationships with GMs around the league and build some partners to work with...Neil didn't do that much. There are assets in good relationships with GMs.....Joe may not end up being a good GM but at this point it's way to early to turn him into the new Stotts dartboard....my 2 cents. It's all speculation at this point and I don't buy that talking heads would be better at it than a guy who's put in almost 2 decades in the league and is Chad Buchanon's best friend. Patience is where I'm at...I lost complete interest in the team when they were obviously tanking...don't like tanking. As to what Joe does....I'll know around Christmas what we've got going So far I like Hart and Winslow but I'd trade Nas (Elliot Williams fears)
     
  16. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    If you trade a top-10 protected pick, your range is 11-30 and you're accepting the value of that. If a team has multiple picks, it's often the more favorable or least favorable of the two, depending on what's agreed upon.
     
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  17. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    I can agree with that also.
    Not sure what exact value CJ had as an asset?
    But still losing that pick was a bad look.
     
  18. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru spent money on booze broads boats wasted rest

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    good to see you around River!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022 at 7:11 AM
  19. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    well, if you believe Jake Fisher about what Atlanta and Dallas offered for CJ, then arguably the Blazers traded CJ for his approximate market value. If the Pels pick had conveyed Portland would have got better than market value

    it was definitely a blow to the rebuild when the pick didn't convey, and it certainly stirred up an anti-Cronin crowd. At the same time, an 11th pick does have limited value. Last time Portland had an 11th pick they selected Meyers Leonard

    biggest worry is that Blazers will use a 6th pick for the value they could have landed with an 11th pick
     
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  20. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru spent money on booze broads boats wasted rest

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    I still think they may package pick if it's 7 or higher. Especially if the Grant deal falls through if there ever was a deal?
     

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