Zombie Neil Deserves Respect

[EGame]

Put me in the category of not being one of Olshey's biggest supporters, but this was a hell of an offseason and has put us right up there with a motivated Dame and some really nice depth. In my eyes, this puts a lot of pressure on Stotts to figure out this roster given the talent he now has. I know the west is deep, but barring injuries there is no reason we shouldn't get to at least to the second round and perhaps even further. Anything less is a massive failure and proves that Stotts time is up here.

 

[wizenheimer]

Remember when Neil tried to trade Nurk for Boogie and it almost went down. That was a massive bullet dodge.

https://www.kgw.com/article/sports/...cousins-blocked-by-agent-report/283-570284191

I don't think the plan was to trade Nurkic for Cousins. Rather, it was simply to add Cousins to the roster in some kind of sign-and-trade. IIRC, this was after Cousins tore his Achilles and Olshey was trying to get a gifted big man (before his injury anyway) on the cheap. I believe the Blazers had a TPE of around 11M at the time from the Crabbe trade

 

[HailBlazers]

Bump

 

[wizenheimer]

did...not...age...well

 

[calvin natt]

Since basically everyone sung his praises in this thread it either means

1) it really was a great offseason and coaching fucked it up
2) this forum doesn’t know shit
3) both

 

[BonesJones]

Since basically everyone sung his praises in this thread it either means

1) it really was a great offseason and coaching fucked it up
2) this forum doesn’t know shit
3) both

4.) Some people would rather blame Olshey (the "car salesman") instead of Stotts (the nice guy).

 

[Tince]

When the next coach doesn't get any further with Dame than Stotts did (WCF), I think it will be fairly obvious that failing to add an all-star for 8 straight years (and counting) is what ultimately held us back. Just my opinion and I hope I'm wrong!

 

[wizenheimer]

Since basically everyone sung his praises in this thread it either means

1) it really was a great offseason and coaching fucked it up
2) this forum doesn’t know shit
3) both

Some posters thought Zach was a great pick at 10 and Babbitt was a good pick at 16. Hard to dispute how good or bad the picks were before we got to see those players perform for a year or two

and the gauge of off-season additions is the season that follows, not the opinions of fans before a single game has been played

and frankly, if Olshey didn't know how Stotts would coach his this new roster after 8 seasons, and the coaching is fucking things up, that's a giant black mark on Olshey's off-season too. He needs to build a roster that fits Stotts, or get a coach that fits the roster. Stotts isn't the architect, Olshey is.

 

[Strenuus]

4.) Some people would rather blame Olshey (the "car salesman") instead of Stotts (the nice guy).

Why can't we blame both? It's the correct answer.

 

[BonesJones]

Why can't we blame both? It's the correct answer.

It's really not. This roster is very talented.

 

[Strenuus]

It's really not. This roster is very talented.

Honestly if anything olshey should be fired for enabling the Melo legacy crap.

 

[mook]

Since basically everyone sung his praises in this thread it either means

1) it really was a great offseason and coaching fucked it up
2) this forum doesn’t know shit
3) both

I've been on the trade CJ bandwagon since...fucking forever really. Within the constraint of keeping CJ, I thought we had an outstanding offseason. My gripes about Olshey really boil down to CJ being untouchable. CJ hasn't been the ruin of this season, but you do have to wonder what we could've done if we'd traded him at his high water mark early in this season. Just getting rid of an extra defensive sieve could be such a difference-maker, especially if we picked up a useful forward in the process.

I probably didn't take into my judgement of this roster any personal commitments we made to Melo to be "caretakers of his legacy." He was clearly promised minutes, and that was a big mistake. That's on Neil.

However, I do feel like the current disaster falls mainly on the shoulders of Stotts. We weren't contenders with the roster he was handed, but we certainly were a better playoff team. A team with Nurk, Roco, Jones and Powell shouldn't be 29th in the league in defense.

 

[blazerkor]

It's really not. This roster is very talented.

How does Olshey always get a pass from you on Stotts? It's completely unreasonable. Stotts is the guy that Olshey pegged to get this roster that you herald as being so good to contention. Stotts hasn't done that, the entire time Olshey has been here and Olshey has not corrected it. Olshey should be fired on that alone. Now the fact that both you and Olshey mistakenly think that Dame and CJ are a good match is another issue all together.

 

[Lanny]

Of all his moves, I liked Covington best, easily. But I will bet good money that when it emerges in a couple of years that a very good player was taken on or after where we pick in 20 and 21, we'll be moaning about this trade.

Better than Powell?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Better than Powell?

Uh - yeah. I won't actually be that sad when Powell leaves in free agency.

 

[Scalma]

I’m not Olsheys biggest fan but I do think he’s done his job better than Stotts has done his. But ultimately Stotts is Olsheys responsibility as well. And Olshey had a pretty major fuckup this offseason when he thought Kanter and Melo would be a good fits for the defensive scheme they originally wanted to run.


I look at it like Stotts has to go 100%. Olshey? He can stay or go, don’t really care.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I’m not Olsheys biggest fan but I do think he’s done his job better than Stotts has done his. But ultimately Stotts is Olsheys responsibility as well. And Olshey had a pretty major fuckup this offseason when he thought Kanter and Melo would be a good fits for the defensive scheme they originally wanted to run.


I look at it like Stotts has to go 100%. Olshey? He can stay or go, don’t really care.

I'm not mad at the acquisition of Kanter or Melo. You need guys who can score off the bench. I'm mad at the way Stotts uses them. Melo should not be getting 25+ minutes a game. Look, he and Kanter have played on other teams and those other teams weren't last in defense.

Stotts is a uniquely inept coach when it comes to defense. We still have plenty of defensive players on this team that get short changed on minutes.

Olshey DEFINITELY is responsible for Stotts' tenure and is the biggest stain on his legacy. Olshey is much much better at his job than Stotts is at his and his peers think so too.

 

[Norman Dale]

Neil and Terry both need to go, but nothing will change as long as Jody is the owner. She has no desire to own the team, except to make money, and doesn't care about basketball. She will run the organization much like Weinberg did back in the early 80's - not spend the money to try and make the team successful.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've been on the trade CJ bandwagon since...fucking forever really. Within the constraint of keeping CJ, I thought we had an outstanding offseason. My gripes about Olshey really boil down to CJ being untouchable. CJ hasn't been the ruin of this season, but you do have to wonder what we could've done if we'd traded him at his high water mark early in this season. Just getting rid of an extra defensive sieve could be such a difference-maker, especially if we picked up a useful forward in the process.

I probably didn't take into my judgement of this roster any personal commitments we made to Melo to be "caretakers of his legacy." He was clearly promised minutes, and that was a big mistake. That's on Neil.

However, I do feel like the current disaster falls mainly on the shoulders of Stotts. We weren't contenders with the roster he was handed, but we certainly were a better playoff team. A team with Nurk, Roco, Jones and Powell shouldn't be 29th in the league in defense.

I feel like this team is cursed by timing. Maybe Neil was looking to deal CJ and then the injury happened. It's highly unlikely, but all that early season value evaporated when he hurt his foot. Neil does seem convinced, for some strange reason, that the Dame/CJ pairing is enough star power to win a championship. CJ is massively overpaid. It's going to be interesting to see what kinds of deals Trent and Norm get this offseason.

 

[Hoopguru]

I’m not Olsheys biggest fan but I do think he’s done his job better than Stotts has done his. But ultimately Stotts is Olsheys responsibility as well. And Olshey had a pretty major fuckup this offseason when he thought Kanter and Melo would be a good fits for the defensive scheme they originally wanted to run.


I look at it like Stotts has to go 100%. Olshey? He can stay or go, don’t really care.

Agree, knowing at D was an area that needed urgently addressed he re-signs 2 players that dont fit the criteria. He must of though RoCo and DJ would offset?

 

[calvin natt]

Here is what I know about GMs. They truly dont have all the power or control to make all basketball decisions no matter what anyone says or thinks. I am always hesitant to really evaluate a GM because I know how many times they are either overruled or the opposite, forced to do something. Not always - sometimes GMs just simply fuck up. Just in my experience, I have been around/heard directly from people situations that are mind boggling and the blame 100% goes on the GM, because people don't know the truth. Neil has not been perfect, and if he chose to leave or was fired, I would be fine with that. But I know that not all of the things attributed to Neil are actually Neil's doing. Perhaps CJ is a Blazer still because someone other than Neil wants that to be the case. Perhaps Evan Turner signed here for a ridiculous amount because someone other than Neil told him to do it. Neils job is then to take ownership of those decisions.

I will never forget the time I was in a car with a GM and a trade was proposed, and the sequence of events after that call is astonishing. GM took all the blame. Thats the way it goes. I dont feel sorry for them necessarily, becuase they get paid a shit l0ad of money. But still not fair.

 

[Scalma]

I'm not mad at the acquisition of Kanter or Melo. You need guys who can score off the bench. I'm mad at the way Stotts uses them. Melo should not be getting 25+ minutes a game. Look, he and Kanter have played on other teams and those other teams weren't last in defense.

Stotts is a uniquely inept coach when it comes to defense. We still have plenty of defensive players on this team that get short changed on minutes.

Olshey DEFINITELY is responsible for Stotts' tenure and is the biggest stain on his legacy. Olshey is much much better at his job than Stotts is at his and his peers think so too.

Kanter didn’t play much for the Celtics last season; in the playoffs he was barely even in Boston’s rotation.

Melo was outta the league mainly because of his defense. Pairing those two together on the same team was a terrible idea. And Stotts loves Melo because he doesn’t give a fuck about defense. But you’re also not gonna carry Melo and NOT play him. Olshey knew what he was getting into with that signing. Cutting Melo’s minutes drastically or benching him just isn’t a realistic option. Neither is cutting him after Neil went on and on about his legacy. They’re stuck and that’s on Olshey.

 

[Tince]

Here is what I know about GMs. They truly dont have all the power or control to make all basketball decisions no matter what anyone says or thinks. I am always hesitant to really evaluate a GM because I know how many times they are either overruled or the opposite, forced to do something. Not always - sometimes GMs just simply fuck up. Just in my experience, I have been around/heard directly from people situations that are mind boggling and the blame 100% goes on the GM, because people don't know the truth. Neil has not been perfect, and if he chose to leave or was fired, I would be fine with that. But I know that not all of the things attributed to Neil are actually Neil's doing. Perhaps CJ is a Blazer still because someone other than Neil wants that to be the case. Perhaps Evan Turner signed here for a ridiculous amount because someone other than Neil told him to do it. Neils job is then to take ownership of those decisions.

I will never forget the time I was in a car with a GM and a trade was proposed, and the sequence of events after that call is astonishing. GM took all the blame. Thats the way it goes. I dont feel sorry for them necessarily, becuase they get paid a shit l0ad of money. But still not fair.

I believe this to be true to a degree... not only about GMs, but coaches, and players as well. If there is someone above you, then sometimes the decisions you "make" can often be directives.

 

[Scalma]

Agree, knowing at D was an area that needed urgently addressed he re-signs 2 players that dont fit the criteria. He must of though RoCo and DJ would offset?

Giving DJJ the full MLE was another whiff by Olshey. It’s like the team he built is the polar opposite of what his coach actually wants. DJJ not being properly used offensively was the most predictable thing ever. Olshey could’ve just signed RHJ for the minimum and gotten the same production.

If Olshey survives, his next hire better be someone he actually sees eye to eye with on how the game should be played, as well as how players should be utilized.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

When we see better results from a backcourt of CJ and Dame, I would then say he deserves more credit.

I like the moves this off-season and hope it works. As others have said, he may have built a nice house on a shaky foundation.

Still my feelings. While we see other teams build and get better, we have basically been the same for years.

Something major has to change for the results to be different.

 

[Natebishop3]

Giving DJJ the full MLE was another whiff by Olshey. It’s like the team he built is the polar opposite of what his coach actually wants. DJJ not being properly used offensively was the most predictable thing ever. Olshey could’ve just signed RHJ for the minimum and gotten the same production.

If Olshey survives, his next hire better be someone he actually sees eye to eye with on how the game should be played, as well as how players should be utilized.

It's like he sees a player that he really likes and he doesn't care about fit. CJ is a perfect example. I said it at the time and I still don't understand it today. Why the hell did he draft CJ the year after Dame won rookie of the year? Drafting a shoot first combo guard made no sense then, and he has chosen that hill to die on. I just don't get it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here is what I know about GMs. They truly dont have all the power or control to make all basketball decisions no matter what anyone says or thinks. I am always hesitant to really evaluate a GM because I know how many times they are either overruled or the opposite, forced to do something. Not always - sometimes GMs just simply fuck up. Just in my experience, I have been around/heard directly from people situations that are mind boggling and the blame 100% goes on the GM, because people don't know the truth. Neil has not been perfect, and if he chose to leave or was fired, I would be fine with that. But I know that not all of the things attributed to Neil are actually Neil's doing. Perhaps CJ is a Blazer still because someone other than Neil wants that to be the case. Perhaps Evan Turner signed here for a ridiculous amount because someone other than Neil told him to do it. Neils job is then to take ownership of those decisions.

I will never forget the time I was in a car with a GM and a trade was proposed, and the sequence of events after that call is astonishing. GM took all the blame. Thats the way it goes. I dont feel sorry for them necessarily, becuase they get paid a shit l0ad of money. But still not fair.

I demand a lot more inside info than you're giving.

 

[Scalma]

It's like he sees a player that he really likes and he doesn't care about fit. CJ is a perfect example. I said it at the time and I still don't understand it today. Why the hell did he draft CJ the year after Dame won rookie of the year? Drafting a shoot first combo guard made no sense then, and he has chosen that hill to die on. I just don't get it.

Im not one of those that place all the blame on the pairing of Dame and CJ. I’ve been saying for years they can coexist, but not the way they’re utilized under Stotts. CJ should not be given the freedom that Dame is. If he was utilized more off the ball as a spot up shooter ala Klay/Redick, and ball movement was prioritized, he’d be deadly and the offense would be more fluid. All his spot up numbers are elite yet we rarely see any plays run to get him in those positions. Rather, he gets to pound the rock and run the shot clock out before attempting some contested low percentage shot. That’s purely on Stotts. Even when Dame was out Melo had the freedom to essentially play pick up basketball.

everyone goes on and on about the defense, and rightfully so, but Stotts’ offensive mind is so overrated it’s unreal.

 

[illmatic99]

It's like he sees a player that he really likes and he doesn't care about fit. CJ is a perfect example. I said it at the time and I still don't understand it today. Why the hell did he draft CJ the year after Dame won rookie of the year? Drafting a shoot first combo guard made no sense then, and he has chosen that hill to die on. I just don't get it.

if a coach can't maximize his players' strengths and adapt to new personnel, how is it the GM's fault? Even Gregg Popovich changed his style to adapt to new players on his team and won a title in 2014.

Stotts is running the same basic shit on offense he did in 2016. And using the same drop scheme on defense that he did in 2013. The game has changed, the players have changed, yet our coach remains stuck in his ways.

This is the macro lens, but he does the same when you look at adjustments in-game. They just don't happen. When Curry has been cooking you cuz of drop coverage for 40+ in three quarters and you keep doing the same shit for the last quarter, expect to get 60 put on you.

 

[tester551]

Here is what I know about GMs. They truly dont have all the power or control to make all basketball decisions no matter what anyone says or thinks. I am always hesitant to really evaluate a GM because I know how many times they are either overruled or the opposite, forced to do something. Not always - sometimes GMs just simply fuck up. Just in my experience, I have been around/heard directly from people situations that are mind boggling and the blame 100% goes on the GM, because people don't know the truth. Neil has not been perfect, and if he chose to leave or was fired, I would be fine with that. But I know that not all of the things attributed to Neil are actually Neil's doing. Perhaps CJ is a Blazer still because someone other than Neil wants that to be the case. Perhaps Evan Turner signed here for a ridiculous amount because someone other than Neil told him to do it. Neils job is then to take ownership of those decisions.

I will never forget the time I was in a car with a GM and a trade was proposed, and the sequence of events after that call is astonishing. GM took all the blame. Thats the way it goes. I dont feel sorry for them necessarily, becuase they get paid a shit l0ad of money. But still not fair.

I recognize that GM's are not autonomous in their decision making.
I'd expect it to be much like normal corporate hierarchy. GMs would be allowed to make 'low-level' decisions on their own. Anything larger than that needs to be elevated to the owner. The most important job (& skill) of the GM is to 'educate' the owner of why a certain move would be good or poor...

Paul Allen most definitely was an involved owner. He asked a lot of questions to his GM's to discuss/educate him. Based on all the reports (mostly from the GM's themselves), they said that Paul generally deferred to the GM's recommendations. Obviously, the Crabbe contract is the one that stands out as being influenced by Paul Allen.... However, I still think that is a blemish on Olshey for not having a strong enough argument that allowing Crabbe to walk would be better in the long run.

Since PA passing - I highly doubt that Jody is all that involved. I would expect her to 'rubber stamp' anything that NO presents to her as long as it fits within the financial budget that they have for the team.

Long story short - you have a point worth considering, but the GM's still have the majority of blame/credit.