How to keep Kanter?

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riverman said:
Doesn't stop Morey in Houston...the rules can be manipulated.(trading a player that you end up signing again)..the Cavs are a small market that went deep into the luxury tax and made multiple finals appearances with a ring to boot.....who says Portland couldn't do the same. We're not broke like New Orleans or Memphis seem to be all the time...I think we're headed in the right direction.
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This is true, although it is why Morey lost Ariza to Phoenix last summer. But similar to what the Blazers were finally able to do this year, Morey (like all of LBJ's teams) they always seems to get vets for the minimum after the deadline to help down the stretch.
 
jlprk said:
Despite his stellar stats per minute, all 3 of his teams have gotten rid of him and his temper. I would keep him, but not if we have to pay much.
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We could use some temper on this team as long as its steered in the right direction.
 
Orion Bailey said:
We could use some temper on this team as long as its steered in the right direction.
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yeah, right, sure....steer a temper for $800 alex

I'm always working hard trying to steer my wife's temper in the right direction, which is basically any direction but me....I've been trying, almost daily, for decades. I'll let you guys know the first time I'm successful
 
Why are we worrying about next year problems this year? I wouldn't even think about signing this guy until I see him play some 20 games. Remember Nic Stauskas first game? Also, we don't know how useful he might be against the Warriors, the Rockets, the Thunder, ... etc. The Pelicans made Nurk useless last playoff ...
Don't discount Zach improving over the summer. We all know, he just needs to improve his footwork in the post.
 
joeBlazers said:
I wouldn't even think about signing this guy until I see him play some 20 games. Remember Nic Stauskas first game?
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With all due respect, Kanter is not Nic Stauskas. Kanter was averaging 14 pts. and 10 rebounds with the Knicks. Those are numbers that Stauskas can only dream about.

Also, we don't know how useful he might be against the Warriors, the Rockets, the Thunder, ... etc. The Pelicans made Nurk useless last playoff ...
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We also don’t know how useful Collins will ever be in the playoffs.

Don't discount Zach improving over the summer. We all know, he just needs to improve his footwork in the post.
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As the old saying goes, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. We have Kanter, we know what we can do, and in his first two games he’s already done better than Collins ever has. I hope Collins makes the third year leap like Layman has, but there’s no guarantee that he will.
 
riverman said:
you can make trades even for future picks and dump salary or pay the luxury tax...my example was Cleveland when Lebron went back there...many teams are looking to this offseason with so many players that will be available. We always have the Nets...…...our G league team
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When LeBron went back to Cleveland they had the #1 pick to trade for Love and then traded for guys they had bird rights to and therefore were able to go over the cap as much as they wanted to re-sign them.

We can do that with Aminu and Layman this summer. We CAN'T do that with Kanter, Hood, and Curry. It doesn't matter how anyone tries to site other examples with other teams. There are limits to what we can offer those guys and it's not very much. Please stop comparing it to situations that aren't equivalent.
 
hoopsjock said:
Nurk got a 4 year, $48 million contract so factoring in that Kanter is a couple years older and isn't as good defensively I'd estimate him to get about $10 million a year this summer. That is why it was a big failure to not ditch a contract at the deadline. It's the difference between starting off at $9 million this summer, which would get in the ballpark to retain him, or only being able to offer $5.6 million. If the rest of the season goes well would he sign here for the Tax-MLE for 2 years thinking he'd get a bigger deal once we had his bird rights and he'd still only be 28? I think that'd be a huge risk considering the ownership situation and what if Olshey isn't still here to follow through with a promise.

Most likely it would take something along the lines of what Denver did last summer where we'd have to trade a team a 2020 lottery protected 1st to take on a contract but the problem with this route is it was 12 days into free agency after most of the dust had settled. Would Kanter still be unsigned by then? Would teams that struck out be willing to take on the salary? Is that still enough money to sign Kanter and keep Layman? It's super tricky short of a miracle dumping of Turner's contract.
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It kind of highlights the absurd $10 Million/year that Leonard is getting.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Careful! Somebody might take that as a criticism of St Neil!
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Everybody makes mistakes. I once made a one Million dollar mistake 35 years ago at Boeing. You shrug it off and try your very best not to do it again.
When I was 17, I was with a bunch of kids who broke into a dynamite shack. Okay, it wasn't my idea and I did not help in any way with the caper. Also, we didn't take anything for which I was eternally grateful. I also use to drive while drunk. Were those dumb things? Absolutely but we all make stupid mistakes. I haven't drunk and driven in maybe 30 to 35 years. Wasn't a bad person, just a dumb one.
I have to judge a person by other metrics than just results. So, I'm not going to condemn Olshey based just on Leonard.
 
jlprk said:
Despite his stellar stats per minute, all 3 of his teams have gotten rid of him and his temper. I would keep him, but not if we have to pay much. He's not all that wanted around the league and I think our chances of keeping him economically are 50-50.
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1.) Utah traded him for salary reasons.
2.) OKC traded him to match Carmelos contract.
3.) NYK got rid of him because he was too good for a tanking team and he wanted to play.

S...m...h...
 
Way too early to even think about signing him. I wouldn't even bother ... until the season is over.
BonesJones said:
1.) Utah traded him for salary reasons.
2.) OKC traded him to match Carmelos contract.
3.) NYK got rid of him because he was too good for a tanking team and he wanted to play.

S...m...h...
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riverman said:
Doesn't stop Morey in Houston...the rules can be manipulated.(trading a player that you end up signing again)..the Cavs are a small market that went deep into the luxury tax and made multiple finals appearances with a ring to boot.....who says Portland couldn't do the same. We're not broke like New Orleans or Memphis seem to be all the time...I think we're headed in the right direction.
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Apples to oranges based on restricted free agent salary situations. Ww are not in the same position as those teams and dont have certain flexibilities they had.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Apples to oranges based on restricted free agent salary situations. Ww are not in the same position as those teams and dont have certain flexibilities they had.
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Isn't that the point? Olshey doesn't get to play the "my hands are tied" card when he was the one who tied them!
 
oldmangrouch said:
Isn't that the point? Olshey doesn't get to play the "my hands are tied" card when he was the one who tied them!
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Well okay but it doesnt change the situation. I thought the discussion was manueverability and what can be done to keep kanter.
Not what was done in the past that limits our options?
Thats another topic of discussion... that has been beaten to death in half the threads here.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Well okay but it doesnt change the situation. I thought the discussion was manueverability and what can be done to keep kanter.
Not what was done in the past that limits our options?
Thats another topic of discussion... that has been beaten to death in half the threads here.
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Point taken. :cheers:
 
oldmangrouch said:
Do other GMs circumvent the rules, or do they just understand them better and plan around them better?
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I'm directly talking about the current situation in regards to keeping Kanter. Even if we fired Olshey and brought in the greatest GM of all-time (whoever that is) it wouldn't change what we can offer Kanter, Hood, and Curry this summer.

I've said numerous times since the trade deadline that it was a failure not to dump a contract this year. BUT as mentioned in this very thread, Olshey still has a chance to make the 2016 off season worth the 3 year wait. We can of course argue about the value of expiring contracts next year (I know they won't be as valuable as this year) and whether or not Olshey will fail at getting something for them anyway. As discussed there is still value in having a teeny tiny chance of pulling off something big versus simply trading a bunch of players and bad contracts so we can keep marginal players this summer.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Do other GMs circumvent the rules, or do they just understand them better and plan around them better?
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I also find it kind of funny that you're basically accusing him of not setting this summer up like the summer of 2016 where he did plan for being able to re-sign all our own free agents and also have money to bring in a max contract too.

So lets say we did have bird rights on all our free agents. We sign Kanter for 3 years and $10 million a year. We sign Hood for like 2 years at $7 million a year. We sign Aminu for one year and $10 million. We sign Layman to a 4 year deal starting at about $8 million a year. Let Curry walk.

The luxury tax line is projected to be $132 million. Add in our 1st round pick and our salary next year would be about $163 million or an insane +$30 million into the tax. It's too early for math but I believe that would be about a $147 million tax payment so our total salary next season would be over $300 million.

For what? This current team isn't worth keeping together for that kind of money.
 
hoopsjock said:
I also find it kind of funny that you're basically accusing him of not setting this summer up like the summer of 2016 where he did plan for being able to re-sign all our own free agents and also have money to bring in a max contract too.

So lets say we did have bird rights on all our free agents. We sign Kanter for 3 years and $10 million a year. We sign Hood for like 2 years at $7 million a year. We sign Aminu for one year and $10 million. We sign Layman to a 4 year deal starting at about $8 million a year. Let Curry walk.

The luxury tax line is projected to be $132 million. Add in our 1st round pick and our salary next year would be about $163 million or an insane +$30 million into the tax. It's too early for math but I believe that would be about a $147 million tax payment so our total salary next season would be over $300 million.

For what? This current team isn't worth keeping together for that kind of money.
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So: Layman/Hood/Kanter at $25 mil vs Turner/Harkless/Leonard at their current salary. The difference may not be earth-shaking, but there is no doubt in my mind which is better. The real issue, however, is that it doesn't matter if Kanter is a huge upgrade on Leonard or not. There is no room here for a basketball related decision. It's all about dollars and cents - and IMHO that rarely ends well for anyone who cares about the team winning.

We will just have to agree to disagree.
 
oldmangrouch said:
So: Layman/Hood/Kanter at $25 mil vs Turner/Harkless/Leonard at their current salary. The difference may not be earth-shaking, but there is no doubt in my mind which is better. The real issue, however, is that it doesn't matter if Kanter is a huge upgrade on Leonard or not. There is no room here for a basketball related decision. It's all about dollars and cents - and IMHO that rarely ends well for anyone who cares about the team winning.

We will just have to agree to disagree.
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Of course I'd rather have Layman, Hood, and Kanter. You can't play that game though because everything from 2016 would be different from that point forward.

Besides, lets say it was possible. Next year you'd be complaining about how we aren't contenders and locked into a different set of slightly better players. We would still lack the top end talent to compete. Between those expirings, having all our future 1sts, and some young players we at least have a slight chance to add a big upgrade next year.
 
hoopsjock said:
You're missing my point. If we kept Kanter and got hard capped it would be really hard to add other players to the roster and we have to have 14.
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No I get it. But there are minimum salary guys we could bring in. We'd be able to fill the roster.
 
They were really forcing the ball into him last game, and he was really forcing some bad attempts. I wish they'd just run the damn offense when he's in. And as others have said, run Zach next to him and find out if he can make up for some of Kanter's Ole defense.
 
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