The Raptors should be an example to us of how to build a better team

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Natebishop3, May 25, 2019.

  1. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense. The reality is we're not bringing the same team back even if we want to.

    I'm not sure why all the opposition to trying to improve the team. Stotts is not going to be fired. Neither is Olshey. Players moves will be made.
     
  2. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I'm probably forgetting something but I can only remember 2 instances: Batum & Crabbe

    but I sure as hell can point to one time when Portland should NOT have matched and that was with Crabbe. Portland essentially paid over 38M for one year of Crabbe when he had a PER of 11.6, a winshare/48 of 0.89 and a box plus/minus of -1.0. Making it worse is that the Blazers will have to endure 7 years of a 2.85M stain of dead salary on the cap.

    and it was all about as predictable as rain in January. Crabbe was a one dimensional player who played bad defense. Brooklyn was dumb as hell to offer him that and Portland was dumber than dumb as hell to match. The Nets pulled Olshey's fat out of the fire by stupidly agreeing to trade for him a year later. Without that, the Blazers would have been in a world of hurt the last 2 seasons
     
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  3. Cugel

    Cugel Well-Known Member

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    scary thing is Kawhi is younger than dame , I had no idea.

    who will be the next superstar to sign a let-me-rest-20-games-so-I- can kill-it-during-the-postseason deal?

    kd??? ad??
     
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  4. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    you really need to track this specific discussion back further in this thread. It all started when a poster claimed that matching Crabbe was PA's decision, not Olshey's

    again, nobody is saying that PA wasn't involved in decisions. What we're saying is that blaming PA for the bad decisions while letting Olshey skate on accountability, then turning around and crediting Olshey for the good decisions makes no sense. If PA was right up front on the bad moves, he was right up front on the good moves. To believe otherwise is irrational

    Was it PA or Olshey that offered a max contract to Roy Hibbert? Who offered a max to Enes Kanter and then Greg Monroe? Who essentially traded away four 2nd round picks and a chunk of cap-space for TRob? Who offered a max-MLE to Spenser Hawes? Who traded Will Barton and a 1st for Aaron Afflalo? Who traded Batum for Henderson and Vonleh and later traded away Vonleh to avoid tax? Who tried to sign Meyers to a rumored 15M/year deal then a year later signed him to a 10M/year deal? Who offered a max contract to Chandler Parsons? ...then who pivoted from Parsons to offering 70M to Turner? Does anybody really believe that was Paul Allen front and center on all those moves?

    I'm waiting for the next bad move Olshey makes...it will be Jody Allen's fault. Those damn Allens
     
  5. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    PA was always involved as 95% of all owners are. The owners almost always have the final say.

    However, history has indicated that PA almost always deferred to the GMs recommendation. Some examples off the top of my head incluse the Roy contact extension negotiation and Oden over Durant.

    On the Crabbe match, it was clear that PA didnt want 'talent' walking out the door. However, it is very unclear how much (if any) resistance NO gave (this has been & should stay private). Its the GMs responsibility to discuss & educate the owner on what the player is really worth.

    Anyone who looked at advanced metrics could see Crabbe was a MLE type guy at best. Given how progressive PA was on the analytical side, Id have to assume that he'd agree with the GM if presented with a compelling reason not to match.

    Given all the money given out by NO that summer, Id have to guess that he didn't disagree with the Crabbe matching.

    At the end of the day, its all speculation. However, if you're of the mindset that PA was the 'defacto' GM, then he should get just as much credit as blame for all the decisions.
     
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  6. H.C.

    H.C. Writing Team

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    Did I say you said you favored them? No

    This is where I give say to you the Public reason you gave for resigning as a mod for s2.
     
  7. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    :dunno:
     
  8. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    In the last 4 years...

    1) The Blazers had a 10-game playoff losing streak, which sounds bad!
    2) The Blazers have an overall playoff record of 13-22, which is better, but still mediocre.
    3) The Blazers are 12-10 against non-Warriors playoff teams, which actually sounds good to me.
    4) The Blazers have been in the playoffs each of the last 4 years, have gotten advanced twice, and made it to the
    conference finals once. The sounds very nice.

    So, if you want to be a curmudgeon, there are certainly stats to reinforce your view.
    If you want to be an optimist, there are also stats to support you.

    So, each fan's views reflect themselves. Who do you want to be???
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  9. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Oh, great idea. Let’s do that.

    Of course, the question is how do you get good enough to beat the Warriors and the other 28 teams that are also trying to do that?
     
  11. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    Since no small market team has won an NBA championship in the last 40 years that didn't have Tim Duncan or LBJ on it, you are in for a very LONG WINTER.

    Sorry, it's just not going to happen. You are either going to end up a bitter old man, or become bandwagonner. May the Lord have pity on your soul, either way.
     
  12. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Question: How do you get good enough to beat the Warriors and the other 28 teams that are also trying to do that?

    Answer: Not the same thing that you have been doing for the past five years.
     
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  13. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    You're missing the point.

    Did I expect us to win a championship this year? No.

    Am I upset that we didn't win a championship this year? No.

    But what the hell is the point if you're not even trying? Some fans seem to be happy with moral victories and I am not. I want to see the team try new things and take risks. The whole point of this thread is to point out how the Raptors made massive changes and took big risks and now they're in the Finals.
     
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  14. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Or: Exactly the same thing you’ve been doing the last five years...get better every year, develop your talent, and watch for a chance at that game-changing trade that can put you over the top.
     
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  15. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    1) So, you're going with Bitter Old Man?
    2) We're trying, Jennifer
    3) The Raptor have been at the top of the East for several years, and decided to take a big risk to put them over the top. That risk has yet to pay off. Yes, they made it to the finals, but it was always LBJ who was in their way, and he's gone from the east now. They either need to beat the Warriors OR have KL re-sign. If either happens, THEN yes, their risk payed off.
    4) They Blazers also took a risk, expending resources to rent Hood. It payed off in that they went to the conference finals, way ahead of their 1st round ouster in the last 2 years.
     
  16. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Did the Raptors do that in isolation? No. They were good enough and had enough talent to make a deal with the Spurs on a disgruntled superstar. You don’t get the chance at making that trade without the first part.
     
  17. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    When the refs start calling moving screens, we'll have a punchers chance at beating them. I'm not holding my breath.... Hell freezing over....
     
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  18. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Who gives a fuck about Crabbe and whether PA was the final decision maker. It was several years ago and guys like you will be bringing this up again and again probably 20 years later. It was done, it's over and the team made it to the WCF. This is a prime time for "GET OVER IT".
     
  19. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Plus these same posters that whine about almost everything seem to keep forgetting that the Spurs weren't interested in trading him to a team in the west.
     
  20. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Question: If the Raptors lose and Kawhi leaves, is it really better to go that route?

    In the West there is no example yet that taking a big risk is better than trying to keep a core with continuity. Sure, I'd love to get one round further next year but if we're talking championship as the ultimate goal if the Raptors lose they aren't really any closer than we were.

    Edit: I'm not saying we shouldn't take risks, just that it's hard to see that it is necessarily better than the path we're currently on.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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