Would Ben Simmons be the last piece of our puzzle?

[Portland2014]

with the emergence of Gary Trent jr it could finally be the moment to pull the trigger on a trade that balance out our roster.

I think Ben Simmons would be the perfect fit for our roster.
A wing (our biggest weakness) that can handle the ball and defend multiple positions.

Just imagine the pick&roll Simmons/Nurkic with Lillard/Trent/Ariza spacing the floor.

We could actually win games with DEFENSE having 4 defenders like Trent, Ariza, Simmons and Nurkic.

I think Simmons is the only star who could be on the market and that complement our roster.

Obviously the piece in return would be CJ who would actually complement Embiid.

What do you guys think? is it realistic?

 

[tykendo]

IMO, NO!

 

[BlayZa]

no, a jayson tatum tho? yes.

Simmons just wont complement Dame. The way dame scores i think we can afford to have a bigger SG who is a great on the ball defender and do a bit of everything. It may be Trent?

 

[mook]

I don't think he's an ideal fit. Dame is the best pick and roll guard in the league. Nurk is just a better pairing for Dame due to his size. We'd have the same problem the Sixers have--what do you do with Simmons when the play isn't for him? I guess you put him on the weak side post, but that clogs a lot of the action up.

I still think he's a better fit than CJ, though. Dame creates all kind of spacing with his ridiculous range, which makes up for some of Simmons' shooting limitations. Meanwhile, Simmons impacts all other aspects of the game while CJ just doesn't. If CJ isn't scoring, he's just not worth putting out there. We needed CJ's shot making more before Trent emerged.

Gary Trent is just a better fit in Portland as a starting shooting guard. People keep bringing up Wes Matthews, which I get, but he's really in position to play a poor man's Klay Thompson on this team. Give him the harder guard defensive assignment every night and let him collect buckets off Dame's creation. Seems like there are lots of examples of championship caliber teams with a Curry/Klay dynamic than a Dame/CJ dynamic. You just need a big guard who can defend.

There's also a loooong track record in Portland over the past 7-8 years of guys getting much, much better at perimeter shooting. I don't know if it's the coaching or just being around Dame/CJ, but so many guys have had career three point shooting years here. I think you roll the dice on Simmons with some of that baked into the calculation.

That said, I wouldn't be averse to other options as well. CJ is our most valuable trade piece, and we really should've dealt him a few years ago.

 

[perkinsfor3]

If we trade CJ I'd rather focus on bringing in a perfect fit. For that price, Simmons isn't worth it for us, strangely enough. I dont think he makes us better - see how Melo has been forced to develop a better outside shot and focus less on midrange since we got him? Now hes a great fit. Simmons has shown zero development since his rookie year - Im not sure if it was here that domeone said that he's basically a better Rubio.

I'd much rather focus on shuffling some minor pieces. I like the Bjelica idea someone posted earlier this week - he'd be a good fit. I like Marvin Williams as well.

Meanwhile, the Hawks MIGHT need to consider a John Collins trade. They probably aren't going to resign him this summer and next summer they probably will have a hard time matching his offers. Collins would be the type of player I'd trade a CJ for.

Contract wise it might be hard to make the numbers work - the only option I see would be CJ plus Ant for John Collins, Dedmon and the right to overpay Capela. I dont think either side is interested in that one.

Edit: come to think of it, Collins has been horrible at defense. It wouldnt really help us that much.

 

[mook]

Meanwhile, the Hawks MIGHT need to consider a John Collins trade. They probably aren't going to resign him this summer and next summer they probably will have a hard time matching his offers. Collins would be the type of player I'd trade a CJ for.

Contract wise it might be hard to make the numbers work - the only option I see would be CJ plus Ant for John Collins, Dedmon and the right to overpay Capela. I dont think either side is interested in that one.

I like the idea, but I don't see why Atlanta would be excited to pair CJ with Trae. Seems like a really bad fit. I don't see CJ really being happy as a second banana to another pg either. CJ is really at the point in his career where if you are trading him away from Dame, he's going to want to run the back court.

 

[Hoopguru]

How do you all think Dame would feel about all this trade CJ stuff during a run. Would anyone in here really suggest this to Dame in person? no way

 

[illmatic99]

Simmons is an elite defender who can guard both forward positions. Look at some of the the top players in the league in the next 5 yrs: Kawhi/Giannis/George/Luka/Zion/Tatum/Durant, and of course Lebron. We have NO ONE who can even hope to guard these guys. The biggest competition for Dame will be these guys, not Steph et al.

Simmons is also an elite passer on offense, while also being able to contribute in the dunker spot. Surround him, Dame, Nurk with shooters and you've got a potent offensive lineup, but so much versatility, size, and strength on defense. We have the template for a guard-led title team from GS in 2015-17. Elite shooting, fast pace, and super-switchability on defense. Simmons just facilitates that better than any other player in the league (sans shooting obviously) I believe.

I've long said I'd give up anyone and everyone not named Dame or Nurk to land Simmons. That point remains even with his injury history. The potential ceiling is just too high

 

[illmatic99]

How do you all think Dame will feel about all this trade CJ stuff during a run. Would anyone in hear really suggest this to Dame in person? no way

He'd get over it quick if it worked.

 

[Hoopguru]

He'd get over it quick if it worked.

maybe so.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Im not sure if it was here that domeone said that he's basically a better Rubio.

Ironically, the real Rubio has adapted perfectly and is shooting great from three and playing off the ball well with Booker.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Some discussion relevant to this thread has also happened in this other thread.

 

[perkinsfor3]

Kawhi/Giannis/George/Luka/Zion/Tatum/Durant, and of course Lebron. We have NO ONE who can even hope to guard these guys. The biggest competition for Dame will be these guys, not Steph et al.

There's only a hand full of teams who have players eho can check these (heck most of the names here can't check the others) and the players who check them best are quite often not as highly touted.

Simmons is also an elite passer on offense

As opposed to being an elite passer on defense?

while also being able to contribute in the dunker spot

The WHAT spot?

We have tried playing a non shooter (and they were much better shooters than Simmons) at SF and PF who could defend really well before and we've moved away from that. Teams don't do well if they have too many either/or players. Ben Simmons is too limited.

We have the template for a guard-led title team from GS in 2015-17. Elite shooting, fast pace, and super-switchability on defense.

Chasing outliers in basketball never works well. GSW is the perfect storm and even then, they're stuck in luxury tax hell for the next x years.

 

[illmatic99]

We have tried playing a non shooter (and they were much better shooters than Simmons) at SF and PF who could defend really well before and we've moved away from that. Teams don't do well if they have too many either/or players. Ben Simmons is too limited.

This is really shortsighted thinking if you're gonna compare Simmons and his creating ability to Moe/Aminu by just because they all aren't shooters. Out entire offensive attack would change with Simmons. Adding him to Dame/Nurk wouldn't just slot him into the roles that our previous guys had.

 

[perkinsfor3]

This is really shortsighted thinking if you're gonna compare Simmons and his creating ability to Moe/Aminu by just because they all aren't shooters. Out entire offensive attack would change with Simmons. Adding him to Dame/Nurk wouldn't just slot him into the roles that our previous guys had.

You the guy that thought bringing in Simmons was great because he fills the 'dunker spot' need?

 

[B-Roy]

Having two non shooters out there in crunch time is just not viable IMO. I'd rather have the ball in Dame's hands in crunch time than Simmons, and I don't want Simmons and Nurkic shrinking the court.

 

[perkinsfor3]

Basically we saw the effect with Evan Turner. He's a really good passer, defender really well too and even was able to hit that midrange quite well. Still, too limited in this modern game, unless you have a great shooter at the other positions.

 

[illmatic99]

Basically we saw the effect with Evan Turner. He's a really good passer, defender really well too and even was able to hit that midrange quite well. Still, too limited in this modern game, unless you have a great shooter at the other positions.

Now you're comparing Simmons to Evan Turner?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Trent isn't playing any minutes at SG but fans think he can play exclusively there in place of CJ?

Stotts is playing Simons all minutes when one of DameCJ sit. There needs to be two ball handlers on the court at all times or opponents will trap the hell out of Dame.

Trent is a SF.

 

[perkinsfor3]

Now you're comparing Simmons to Evan Turner?

Noticed that I'm ignoring you? I addressed your nonsense before. I'm explaining that players which fit a certain profile haven't helped us over the hump. We need more diverse strengths.

Go spot some dunkers for the 'dunk role'. Atta boy.

 

[illmatic99]

Noticed that I'm ignoring you? I addressed your nonsense before.

Go spot some dunkers for the 'dunk role'.

I don't get the reason for your snarky comments. You're choosing to pick one point from what I said but ignoring everything else.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I would look at acquiring Simmons if a CJ/youth/picks package could but the knee injury is a major concern to me. I'd need to see him 100% healthy to finish the playoffs or healthy next season to consider such a move.

Yes Simmons lack of shooting is a concern but if healthy the positive potential of everything else he does outweigh that downside.

 

[perkinsfor3]

No, I adressed litteraly all of your nonsense on the previous page.

 

[illmatic99]

I would look at acquiring Simmons if a CJ/youth/picks package could but the knee injury is a major concern to me. I'd need to see him 100% healthy to finish the playoffs or healthy next season to consider such move.

Yes Simmons lack of shooting is a concern but if healthy the positive potential outweighs that downside.

There is a reason why many considered Philly a title contender. I think people are not realizing how good this guy is just because he can't shoot. For now. But he still is making field goals at a ridiculous 58% clip. And he is an elite playmaker and defender and is a legit 6'10. Watching Trent and CJ try to guard the likes of Tatum and Porter the last few games have just reinforced how small we are at the wing. We don't have a longterm solution at that position either, even with Nas miraculously having a jump.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

There is a reason why many considered Philly a title contender. I think people are not realizing how good this guy is just because he can't shoot. For now. He is an elite playmaker and defender and is a legit 6'10. Watching Trent and CJ try to guard the likes of Tatum and Porter the last few games have just reinforced how small we are at the wing. We don't have a longterm solution at that position either, even with Nas miraculously having a jump.

Yeah a stud big wing like Simmons would be awesome to add.

If Neil can't do that, he at least needs a big defensive wing as we previously had in Aminu/Harkless. I'm fine moving on from them as a starting duo, but we need someone able to play 20minutes defense against the big elite wings in the league.

 

[illmatic99]

No, I adressed litteraly all of your nonsense on the previous page.

how is what i said "nonsense" but you can openly compare simmons to evan freaking turner?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Trying to imagine the perfect supporting cast for Simmons. They should all be shooters, and the advantage of Simmons is that you can have short shooters who aren't PGs on your team - you know, like CJ. Also you can have a big who likes to stand outside and shoot - Brook Lopez or Porzingis. And all of them should be low usage because Simmons is useless on offense if he isn't controlling it. He just doesn't fit with our guys very well, except if you swap him for Dame, and no Blazer fan would go for that.

I know the PERFECT Simmons trade...

 

[e_blazer]

how is what i said "nonsense" but you can openly compare simmons to evan freaking turner?

Sure: Evan Turner has cooler hair than Ben Simmons. Evan Turner has had more trucks in his swimming pool that Ben Simmons.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Sure: Evan Turner has cooler hair than Ben Simmons. Evan Turner has had more trucks in his swimming pool that Ben Simmons.

He said COMPARE not CONTRAST.

 

[illmatic99]

Trying to imagine the perfect supporting cast for Simmons. They should all be shooters, and the advantage of Simmons is that you can have short shooters who aren't PGs on your team - you know, like CJ. Also you can have a big who likes to stand outside and shoot - Brook Lopez or Porzingis. And all of them should be low usage because Simmons is useless on offense if he isn't controlling it. He just doesn't fit with our guys very well, except if you swap him for Dame, and no Blazer fan would go for that.

A Giannis centric Milwaukee type offense is the current template, but I think even they will struggle later in the playoffs when they have to rely on the likes of Eric Bledsoe creating shot opportunities. While Middleton is good, he's not much more than a scorer who could get easily taken out with extra defensive attention.

I think we are all overthinking this fit with Simmons. Just looking through basketball reference comps, it's crazy how similar Simmons' numbers look like Magic's. Putting a guy like that next to Dame in multiple roles on the offense is unique and nearly impossible to guard, especially with Nurk's high post passing ability and a good shooting SG next to them.